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The Calvinist hated the Ana-Baptists

SGO

Well-Known Member
Have you read this verse?

Write the things which thou hast seen,
and the things which are,
and the things hereafter.
Revelation 1:18

This is one scripture you can use to twist in to your theory.

The churches are the things which are, that is the present day at the time of the writing.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
A preacher preaches a 30 minute sermon on a single scriptural verse. Will you accuse him of twisting scripture?

No, just you and those that hold to this theory without proof.

You do not even provide a single scripture verse that says, "the churches are seven historical ages."
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

254811_e2605e7ea7d44a55b55ec8f9edea64a9.png

If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado? And a special note here, and that is that my congregation could not keep the revived spirit, which makes me want to sit down and weep with John the Revelator!
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
"If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado?"

You said this?

That is like saying, "who cares if it is true or not, I don't, I just believe it and will spread it like butter."

Nothing again from the bible to say seven churches of Revelation 2-3 are seven historical periods.

Are you making up your "proofs"?

You should weep for twisting the bible to make "truth".

Ye therefore,
beloved, seeing ye know these things before,
beware lest ye also,
being led away with the error of the wicked,
fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:17
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado?"

You said this?

That is like saying, "who cares if it is true or not, I don't, I just believe it and will spread it like butter."

Nothing again from the bible to say seven churches of Revelation 2-3 are seven historical periods.

Are you making up your "proofs"?

You should weep for twisting the bible to make "truth".

Ye therefore,
beloved, seeing ye know these things before,
beware lest ye also,
being led away with the error of the wicked,
fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:17

In reading into the churches I am thankful for the separation of church and state where sects such as the magisterial Protestants cannot re-arise.

I can present my case and if I am hated in return it is no big deal. Especially... As the Ana Baptists were hated before me.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
I worry that we are in the midst of the Laodicean church age.
You, personally may be attending a church similar to what Jesus said to the church at Laodicea. I don't know your church. I am quite sure that not all churches would be addressed by Jesus with the same words he gave to the Laodicean church. His word to my church would be different than any he said to the seven churches in Revelation. Although, I would likely observe a little bit of all the seven churches in my church if I knew everything that was going on. Churches are full of sinners who are justified by faith in Christ Jesus.
The bottom line is there is no church age historical lineup with the 7 churches of Revelation.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
I worry that we are in the midst of the Laodicean church age.

Sardis - Magisterials like John Calvin
Philadelphia - Pastors like Jacobus Arminius
Laodicea - Who was John Calvin? Who was Jacobus Arminius?
Do you recognize your own judgmental and accusatory spirit in your post? It is a "thus sayeth rockytopva" not a thus sayeth the Lord God.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Do you recognize your own judgmental and accusatory spirit in your post? It is a "thus sayeth rockytopva" not a thus sayeth the Lord God.
Notice how he locked Calvin into a dead church and Arminus into one of the two churches that He had nothing negative to say about. So much for him being unbiased. :rolleyes:
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Do you recognize your own judgmental and accusatory spirit in your post? It is a "thus sayeth rockytopva" not a thus sayeth the Lord God.
In which I must be careful of that. In this day and time it is easy to go out of the Spirit into the flesh in which...

19 The works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galatians 5

Especially, pertaining to this topic; wrath, strife, seditions, heresies....

I am not promoting any kind of movement or dogma here,
 

Squire Robertsson

Administrator
Administrator
I suggest you read Verduin's Leonard Verduin Reformers and Their Stepchildren. The link is to the Kindle edition for 1.99 USD. However, in his dedication to his Institutes, Calvin gave his purpose as trying to show he was not a Cata-Baptist.

Squire, first, during the Reformation the Baptists didn't exist, but nearly every nation sought to exterminate Anabaptists due to the reasons I already presented.
Second, your mention of Cotton and Endicott has little to do with Calvinism as a soteriological understanding of God's Sovereign choosing, but more to do with any high church position on baptism as a covenant sign for the church. Would Israel deny circumcision to its male children as a sign of the Abrahamic covenant? No. Therefore, would the church deny baptism to its children as a sign of the new covenant?
What you reveal is that political power often evokes jurisdictional power in the governments of men. There is no doubt we could find Baptist leaders killing black persons in the South for many reasons that were wicked and conjured from hell. There is no denomination that stands uncondemned.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
In which I must be careful of that. In this day and time it is easy to go out of the Spirit into the flesh in which...

19 The works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galatians 5

Especially, pertaining to this topic; wrath, strife, seditions, heresies....

I am not promoting any kind of movement or dogma here,

rocky, in Galatians 5, Paul is showing what sin brings as opposed to what the Spirit brings. It is a complementary passage to Paul's argument, worked out in Romans 3 - 8.

Indeed, this topic is not about the gospel, it is about your prejudice regarding a man who died nearly 500 years ago.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If you torture data (Book of Revelation) long enough, it will confess to anything.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
In reading into the churches I am thankful for the separation of church and state where sects such as the magisterial Protestants cannot re-arise.

I can present my case and if I am hated in return it is no big deal. Especially... As the Ana Baptists were hated before me.

In reading history we can see that all humanity, including redeemed Christians, fall short of the glory of God. Given an opportunity to have control, humans will exercise that control over those with whom they disagree. As I showed you, very radical Anabaptists attempted to gain control (the wicked prophets of Zwickau are one group), but they were defeated. Since all Anabaptists were lumped into one group, those pacifist groups, like those who followed Menno Simons, were caused to flee and wander.

Indeed, separation of church and state has been a blessing regarding freedom of religion. It has also allowed for thousands of intra-biblical cults to arise and lead millions to hell as they claim a false Christ.

Yes, you can present your case. Here at the BB your case may be thoroughly rejected and hated, but you will be prayed for. You are not Anabaptist unless you have a direct line to Menno Simons and his followers. Are you an historic Mennonite, Hutterite, or Amish?

You have presented your case. I see no legitimacy in your case. Instead, I see a prejudice that you were taught, which you will not examine and consider so as to change your mind.

May God grant you the capacity to review your own teaching and change when you see where you are wrong. I started out in a place similar to you. The 7 church age theory was what my church taught me. Free will theology/Arminian theology was my upbringing. I read my Bible and reread my Bible and found that my church had it wrong. I also found that there were others who understood the Bible as I did and that there was a long, long history of similar theology. I cannot go back to the old way, which seems like the law, apart from grace, to me. I cannot elevate my position in regard to salvation and claim a synergistic means of salvation. I must state that my redemption happened despite myself. It was all of God. I did not help God save me.

So, you get no pity party to claim victimhood. Rise up, read your Bible and change your views as God reveals where you are wrong.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is as if the story of Gorge Washington relinquishing power never happened!! To claim it is only human to use compulsion to dominate others is to say Jesus was wrong as people cannot treat others as they want to be treated. Hogwash in defense of hogwash...
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If you study the magisterial Protestants, especially Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin you will find a mean and controlling bunch of men. After Calvin toasted Servetus he said...

"Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory." - John Calvin, after the death of Michael Servetus

"Pure devilry is urging on the peasants…. Therefore let all who are able, mow them down, slaughter and stab them, openly or in secret, and remember that there is nothing more poisonous, noxious and utterly devilish than a rebel. You must kill him as you would a mad dog…" -Martin Luther

Huldrych Zwingli, after Luther and Calvin, was often time referred to as the "Third Man of the Reformation" and just as ruthless. By 1525, adults in Zurich were being baptised in rivers. This was bitterly opposed by Zwingli and Zwingli agreed that Anabaptists should be drowned in a decree of 1526. This destroyed the group and they survived in a few isolated areas of Switzerland or moved to other areas

I believe the magisterial protestants, such as we had in Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin, were all your Sardisean church age variety Christian, and had no use for the Anabaptist.
 

Rob_BW

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
When are you going to stop with the ridiculous lie that DL Moody was somehow the first person to make money off of ministry?
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If you study the magisterial Protestants, especially Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin you will find a mean and controlling bunch of men.
'The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.'
Ever since the time of KIng Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 3:1-7), and probably before, rulers have felt that it is necessary for all their subjects to have the same religion for the sake of peace and order. When King Charles 1 appointed the Arminian William Laud Archbishop of Canterbury in 1633, he persecuted the Calvinists viciously. Today you may think not only of the Moslem countries but India, Myanmar, Sri Lanka and maybe Russia.
The Anabaptists were the first people to propose the separation of Church and State, and for that they deserve our respect, even if their theology was generally pretty ropey.

The first people to combine sound theology with freedom of worship were the Independents and Baptists. :)
 
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