37818
Well-Known Member
You have no valid proof against any of Mark 16:9-20.
Proverbs 30:6 has God's promise, Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
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The case for Mark 16:16.
- Thread starter 37818
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Proverbs 30:6 has God's promise, Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
God allowed man to put them in a version. Don't confuse man-made translations, adding "whatever", to the Bible.
Do you believe The First Book of Esdras, The Second Book of Esdras, The First Book of the Maccabees, The Second Book of the Maccabees, The Book of Baruch, The Book of Bel and the Dragon, The Book of Judith, The Prayer of Manasseh, The History of Susanna, The Book of Tobit, The Book of Wisdom should be in the Bible?
Yet the AV 1611 "Bible" has them all.
Don't blame GOD for man's errors.
You do not PROVE a negative. It is up to the positive to prove it is valid.
Especially thorny in words or books ADDED to God's Word. Hard to prove them valid. First 300 years of church history had many pious books floating around that were considered in some lists to be "canonical". Church fathers labored hard to prove them NOT acceptable as inspired.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Just as you have no valid proof that it should be included. What evidence we do have leans to Mark 16:9-20 not being original.
Those verses may or may not be original but either way they should not impact your faith in Christ Jesus or His word.
37818
Well-Known Member
So does this mean Proverbs 30:6 is not a valid promise? . . . Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Well there is, Jesus' argument He made against unbelievers He spoke to in John 8:47, He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Now I believe Mark 16:9-20 to be written word of God. I have no reason not to.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
OK
Only for historical data. And then they were removed because the churches did not count them as canonical.
Every great revival of history has been done with the King James Bible, like it or not. I am satisfied with those 66 books, for they are the testimony of Christ. God allowed all of Mark's Gospel to remain included, and I accept it. I will NOT start judging God's Word (higher criticism, e.g.) as to what is "true" and what is "false". If there are errors, that's God's problem and I will teach and preach the "errors" the same as the rest of the Bible, for if I cannot believe ALL God's Word, then how may I believe ANY of God's Word. I am a man--I am not fit to sit in judgment of God's Word, that is forever settled in Heaven--and for me, it is forever settled on this Earth (and IN THIS earth, meaning my humanity). All of you are free to believe what you wish--I will stay with my KJB until the bodily return of the Lord Jesus and if and when He then tells me differently.
37818
Well-Known Member
1 Maccabees 4:59. Not Holy Scripture, but history.
. . . the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. per John 10:22.
37818
Well-Known Member
2 Esdras 1:30. Not Holy Scripture. But God was cited.
Matthew 23:37, Luke 13:34.
1) Statements found in scripture considered questionable in origin can be used in support of that doctrine, if the same claim is found in other scripture, not under a cloud.
2) He that believes, as determined by God alone, and is spiritually baptized into Christ, shall be saved.
3) Salvation does not depend upon whether a person says or thinks they believe, salvation depends on the One who calls (transfers the individual spiritually into Christ). Romans 9:16
Every person, including the strangers, gentiles who aligned themselves with Israel, came out of Egypt and not one was left. They were all baptized in the red sea, knowing only Jehovah, the LORD God. Baptism # 1 as a nation and a collective son.
When Jesus Christ began his ministry as the Messiah of Israel and the son of God, Israel was called upon to be baptized in water, and he himself was baptized. The rulers of Israel refused his baptism. Baptism #2.
After his ministry, all Israel was called upon to be baptized in water after repenting of killing their promised Messiah, who had risen from the dead and ascended to heaven. This is the third baptism by God of his physical and collective son in water and the Holy Spirit would indwell them on that condition. The key to Acts 2:38 is what I have underlined in this following quote;
Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Baptism #3 - one in three and three in one = trinitarian. It is everywhere.
The blood of the perfect sacrifice had been shed and there is remission of sins
Now, I am going to quote more than a single verse because some here does not understand what is going on with this baptism.
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
The next two verses is to take place at the return from heaven of Jesus Christ but it is dependent upon every one repenting and receiving the Holy Ghost having been baptized. This would have taken place in 70 AD or there abouts had they repented as a people. Since they did not, the church of Jesus Christ has taken on a gentile character, Judah having been dispersed from her promised land and considered by God as gentile citizens of the nations to which they were driven. Both the Jews and Jesus were absent from the land for over two thousand years.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass (always a future prophecy), that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
When Jesus Christ comes again as King of the Jews and of the world, every citizen left alive (which will be few in number) and who enters that kingdom will have been born again and Israel will be his physical son, born again. Jesus said to a Jewish ruler in John 3 that to enter his kingdom one must be born again.
The purpose of the coming of Jesus Christ as a man was to save Israel, and by extension, the world.
Since they refused to be saved as a people and a nation, God is going to baptize them in fire, which will burn up the chaff and purify Israel as silver is purified. They will be dipped in this fire seven times.
Mt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
This is the day of the LORD judgement that is coming on the whole earth.
Ex 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
Israel was born of the flesh. Israel must be born again and this is the man Jesus is speaking of primarily in John 3. God gave them 40 probation years after his resurrection to repent and be saved and they refused. See He 3.
Maybe I will tell you what the symbol of the water is in my next post.
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Not sure what the point was in this long post.
1) Statements found in scripture considered questionable in origin can be used in support of that doctrine, if the same claim is found in other scripture, not under a cloud.
2) He that believes, as determined by God alone, and is spiritually baptized into Christ, shall be saved.
3) Salvation does not depend upon whether a person says or thinks they believe, salvation depends on the One who calls (transfers the individual spiritually into Christ). Romans 9:16
4) Numbering baptisms seems pointless. The "baptism" that matters is when God baptizes a lost person into Christ, causes them to be born anew, and indwells them with the Holy Spirit. The lost person is then "in Christ" and Christ is in that lost person. The rebirth makes them alive together with Christ. Their salvation is forever, once transferred into Christ, always transferred into Christ, as Christ will not cast them out.
1 | Brethren, my heart's desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved. |
13 | for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Ro 10 |
...saved from what?
Acts 2:
21 | And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. |
...saved from what?
Ro 10:13 and Acts 2:21 are both quoting the same passage from Joel and addressing the same audience. Saved from what?
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37818
Well-Known Member
From not having eternal life. John 5:9-13.
???
9 | And straightway the man was made whole, and took up his bed and walked. Now it was the sabbath on that day. |
10 | So the Jews said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath, and it is not lawful for thee to take up thy bed. |
11 | But he answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. |
12 | They asked him, Who is the man that said unto thee, Take up [thy bed], and walk? |
13 | But he that was healed knew not who it was; for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in the place. Jn 5 |
That's cryptic for 'not going to hell', meaning one must be baptized to be 'saved from hell'. Why beat around the bush?
Your take:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved from hell; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned to hell.