The Catholic Church does not believe what the Bible says...

[historyb]

That last sentence of yours in not true in the least your painting with to broad a brush and in the process violating the ninth commandment of people on the board

 

[Alive in Christ]

"Are there any Catholics here on this board? No."

I wish there were some posting here, but that is up to the owner and adminstrator.

But that doesnt mean Catholics arent here. I am convinced that there are some who are "under cover". (posting as protestants).

In addition, Catholics are free to read if they want to.

And regarding the view that proclaiming the truth to Catholics wont produce results, thats false.

I am living proof that, as an ex-catholic myself, proclaiming the truth, and exposing the error of catholicism, does indeed work.

Thank God proclaiming the truth works. I am saved as a result.

 

[Darron Steele]

Well, pardon me if I do not see any love in starting a thread such as this -- or any of the other discussions against Catholicism or Catholics that are of this thread's intended nature.

Frankly, I do not see any love in a thread designed to get people to have bad feelings against the Catholic church or its people. Announcements that `The Catholic church does this-or-that bad thing; let us talk about it' are not to Catholics, and will not result in much more than venting. That is why I see no love in starting this thread -- there is not any.

Paul wrote those famous words TO the Galatians. Paul did NOT write a general letter talking ABOUT the Galatians, or solicit more negative comments about the Galatians. Paul wrote those words TO the Galatians, in a letter dripping with demonstrations of love and concern for the Galatians.

I bet that most of these addicts to venting grudges against Catholicism or Catholics do not actually DO anything for Catholics. I bet the most they do with respect to Catholics is come here to post about Catholicism or Catholics, or vent about the same subjects in the privacy of their own groups.

Are there any Catholics here on this board? No. They are banned. If they do not want to see their religion -- or them -- bashed for fun, they best not even read here. Many of them no doubt have made exactly that decision.

Threads like this do not help anyone do anything productive. Since when is a thread entitled "The Catholic Church does not believe what the Bible says..." an effort to be "sharing the true gospel" with Catholics? It is not. Catholics will learn little to nothing of the Gospel by reading a thread with that intended topic -- but s/he will learn that there are professing Christians that have a lot of bad things to say about their religious group.

What is more healthy than venting grudges? I think the Bible can tell us that. Hebrews 10:24 " and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works" (ASV). Titus 3:8b "that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people" (ESV).

Want to preach the Gospel? Want to evangelize the lost? Do so. Take the values and priorities the Lord appointed for us as you go. They seem to be lacking in what gets rationalized as `evangelizing lost Catholics.'

No, threads like this are outlets to vent the types of feelings that led to the murder of that Catholic man with a family as reported in that news article. They are nothing better than that, no matter how much people like you try to spin it.

I wish there were some posting here, but that is up to the owner and adminstrator.

But that doesnt mean Catholics arent here. I am convinced that there are some who are "under cover". (posting as protestants).

In addition, Catholics are free to read if they want to.

And regarding the view that proclaiming the truth to Catholics wont produce results, thats false.....

You are twisting my words. I never said that.

Further, I do not see any "proclaiming the truth to Catholics" in the thread's intended topic -- I see a thread that was entitled with a negative comment about the Catholic church to solicit discussion ABOUT the Catholic church.

Now, as for your twisting of my words: if we do evangelism the ways and with the dispositions the Bible tells us, and we will get results -- at least a reward from the Lord. If we indulge wicked urges and cover it up by calling it `evangelism' then we compound our sin.

I deny that venting grudges is evangelism. I deny that venting hateful feelings is good on any pretense.

I hold that soliciting the venting of hateful feelings about a religious group will not result in converts being made from it. The solicitation of venting hateful feelings will only increase those hateful feelings. As demonstrated by Matthew 5, 1 John 3:15, and as seen in the story of the Catholic man who was murdered today for being Catholic, hateful feelings run a course toward greater sin.

My latest prior actual words are quoted here for any honest and reasonable person to read for what I REALLY said.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Why would it "need" to be posted in the rules? This is a private board. The webmaster or owner of the board can make whatever rules he wishes. As guests on this board we adhere to the rules that he has set for us.
Baptist Board has undergone a number of changes throughout its history.
It used to tolerate atheists, evolutionists, Catholics, other cults like the United Pentecostal, and a variety of others. Catholics are one of the groups that the administration banned. They were using this site as a place to proselytize, and advertise their religion. Some of their best apologists were sent here. This is a place for Baptists: their discussion, for them to debate, and occasionally we allow some other religions as well--some, but not all. That is up to the discretion of the administration, and has no bearing on the rules that need to be kept. Those rules are posted at the bottom of each page, and those are the ones that each of need to be acquainted with.
Administrative policy is left up to the administration.

Now there is one group I don't know anything about! Who are the United Pentecostals and what do they believe? Just a note. I don't generally like pentecostal seeing as it were that they are more of a modern version of the montanist movement in the early church. Plus I went to a Pentecostal school to find out what they believed and discovered many things I'm at issue with.

 

[Zenas]

There is one Catholic who posts here with some regularity--Briony-Gloriana. I've heard rumors that at the time of the purge of Catholics from the BB, some of the older ones were "grandfathered" in. Maybe she is one of those, at least I think Briony is a she. Anyway, her posts are always courteous and thoughtful and she has a really beautiful avatar.

 

[Marcia]

Now there is one group I don't know anything about! Who are the United Pentecostals and what do they believe? Just a note. I don't generally like pentecostal seeing as it were that they are more of a modern version of the montanist movement in the early church. Plus I went to a Pentecostal school to find out what they believed and discovered many things I'm at issue with.

I remember when the United Pentecostals (or at least some Oneness people) used to post here. I was one of the people who complained to the mods about this and made requests that they be removed. Thank heavens they did ban them.

This is because Oneness beliefs are heretical - modalism was denounced as heresy back in the 3rd and 4th centuries when it was known as Sabellianism. It is a totally anti-biblical view and has no part in the historic biblical faith.

The title of this forum is Other Christian Denominations. By allowing a non-Christian group such as the United Pentecostals here, it implied that Baptists saw them as fellow believers.

United Pentecostal is a particular group that espouses Oneness and denounces the Trinity. They are not the same as Christian Pentecostal groups.

 

[Marcia]

Some of the beliefs held by United Pentecostals (and other Oneness groups) are:
God appears in 3 modes: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity is denied and sometimes the Holy Spirit is seen more as a force

One must speak in tongues to be saved

One must be baptized in the name of Jesus only (some of these groups are known as "Jesus Only" groups)

Some Oneness believe that eventually the Son is "subsumed" into the Father, and others believe vice-versa; but there are no eternal 3 Persons of the Trinity

Here are some resources on their history and beliefs. The first one is from the North American Mission Board Interfaith Witness resource (So Baptist) and is a good brief overview. The 2nd link is from a ministry I'm very familiar with and gives more info:
http://www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.2904363/k.69B0/Oneness_Pentecostalism.htm

http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm

http://biblefacts.org/cult/oneness.html


The Oneness people that posted here were very aggressive and clearly trying to influence people with heresy. DHK and I along with others debated them often.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Some of the beliefs held by United Pentecostals (and other Oneness groups) are:
God appears in 3 modes: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity is denied and sometimes the Holy Spirit is seen more as a force

One must speak in tongues to be saved

One must be baptized in the name of Jesus only (some of these groups are known as "Jesus Only" groups)

Some Oneness believe that eventually the Son is "subsumed" into the Father, and others believe vice-versa; but there are no eternal 3 Persons of the Trinity

Here are some resources on their history and beliefs. The first one is from the North American Mission Board Interfaith Witness resource (So Baptist) and is a good brief overview. The 2nd link is from a ministry I'm very familiar with and gives more info:
http://www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.2904363/k.69B0/Oneness_Pentecostalism.htm

http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm

http://biblefacts.org/cult/oneness.html


The Oneness people that posted here were very aggressive and clearly trying to influence people with heresy. DHK and I along with others debated them often.

Oh yeah. Know I know. While at that Pentecostal school I heard of these Jesus only groups. Ok I get where you're coming from. The group I studied with had some strange ideas as well. What does the BB think of the Cleveland COG (not the Anderson COG) and the AG?

 

[Melanie]

There is one Catholic who posts here with some regularity--Briony-Gloriana. I've heard rumors that at the time of the purge of Catholics from the BB, some of the older ones were "grandfathered" in. Maybe she is one of those, at least I think Briony is a she. Anyway, her posts are always courteous and thoughtful and she has a really beautiful avatar.

Thank you Zenas for the kind word. I am indeed female and have been on the BB for quite a while. Initially when joined I was attending a Baptist Church but through a convuluted journey I have reverted to my Catholic heritage and am what is sometimes called a traditional Catholic....I attend the Tridentine Mass.

I like to check the BB most days and have enjoyed seeing the views and aspirations of the predominately American members. It grieves me to read the sometimes vitriolic anti-Catholic musings of some members, but on the other hand I often read the deeper theological debates. I do not respond as I am not very clever or particularly intellectual.

At the end of the day....the BB has a special place in my heart :1_grouphug:

 

[Marcia]

Oh yeah. Know I know. While at that Pentecostal school I heard of these Jesus only groups. Ok I get where you're coming from. The group I studied with had some strange ideas as well. What does the BB think of the Cleveland COG (not the Anderson COG) and the AG?

The BB would, I am sure, regard them as fellow believers. We have had Pentecostals on here. It's the United Pentecostals and the Oneness believers that are not allowed here.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You know, it's funny, but I share the Gospel at the beach and nobody's ever called me "anti-swimmer" or "anti-sunbather". I've shared the Gospel at NASCAR races and nobody's ever called me "anti-auto racing". I share the Gospel at the mall and nobody's ever called me anti-shopping. I share the Gospel at the local college campus and nobody ever calls me "anti-education".

But share the Gospel with one Catholic, and all of a sudden, I'm "anti-Catholic".

If speaking the truth in love to Catholics causes people to call me names like "anti-Catholic", then I guess that's just the price I'll have to pay.

The problem with Catholicism is that it cannot be reconciled with Biblical Christianity. You simply cannot deny sola fide, imputed righteousness, and the sufficiency of Christ's atonement and be saved.

Catholics must repent of their sins, put their faith in Christ and His atonement on the cross on their behalf and stop relying on their church and its salvific rituals.

 

[Zenas]

You know, it's funny, but I share the Gospel at the beach and nobody's ever called me "anti-swimmer" or "anti-sunbather". I've shared the Gospel at NASCAR races and nobody's ever called me "anti-auto racing". I share the Gospel at the mall and nobody's ever called me anti-shopping. I share the Gospel at the local college campus and nobody ever calls me "anti-education".

But share the Gospel with one Catholic, and all of a sudden, I'm "anti-Catholic".

If speaking the truth in love to Catholics causes people to call me names like "anti-Catholic", then I guess that's just the price I'll have to pay.

The problem with Catholicism is that it cannot be reconciled with Biblical Christianity. You simply cannot deny sola fide, imputed righteousness, and the sufficiency of Christ's atonement and be saved.

Catholics must repent of their sins, put their faith in Christ and His atonement on the cross on their behalf and stop relying on their church and its salvific rituals.

Here's the difference, JDF. You don't tell swimmers and sunbathers to get off the beach; you don't tell racing fans to abandon the race track; you don't tell shoppers to get out of the mall; and you don't tell college students to quit school. I'm sure you recognize this distinction. By the way, I am also a JDF.

 

[Darron Steele]

Zenas, if these people would actually "speak the truth in love" they would not be anti-Catholic. They would not be Catholic, and they would be able and willing to explain at least some of the errors of Catholicism, but they would not be anti-Catholic.

The difference is in the attitude.

Venting bad feelings about Catholics and inviting others to join in is not "speaking the truth in love." It is NEVER in love, and it is not always "speaking the truth" if the comments about the group or its people are not accurate.

To "speak the truth in love" we have to do both. We have to stick with what the Catholic church actually teaches and does, and what Catholics actually believe or do. We have to desire the well-being of Catholics, as well as try to avoid saying unpleasant comments that are avoidable.

Most people who start up threads like this are not really interested in "speaking the truth in love." They prefer venting -- but they want us to think it is better than that.

 

[Darron Steele]

Here's the difference, JDF. You don't tell swimmers and sunbathers to get off the beach; you don't tell racing fans to abandon the race track; you don't tell shoppers to get out of the mall; and you don't tell college students to quit school. I'm sure you recognize this distinction. By the way, I am also a JDF.

The difference is that you do not go to an Internet discussion board and say `Swimmers and sunbathers are lewd exhibitionists who solicit fornication.'

You do not go to an Internet discussion board and say `Race fans all want to get drunk, cuss, and that is why they go to the track.'

You do not go to an Internet discussion board and say `Shoppers are all a bunch of greedy materialistic slobs who do not do anything for anyone but themselves.'

You do not go to an Internet discussion board and say `College students are just trying to get out of getting jobs and working.'

No; you do not make such baseless accusations -- at least I hope not. You do not go somewhere else and announce these baseless accusations to people not really involved.

What you do instead, if you are witnessing to these populations, is you go to them. You tell them what they need to hear in the least hurtful ways you can, and only what they need to hear. At least, I hope this is the approach you take.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Here's the difference, JDF. You don't tell swimmers and sunbathers to get off the beach; you don't tell racing fans to abandon the race track; you don't tell shoppers to get out of the mall; and you don't tell college students to quit school. I'm sure you recognize this distinction.

I'd tell them to quit those things in a minute if they were depending on them for their salvation.

 

[billwald]

>You know, it's funny, but I share the Gospel at the beach and nobody's ever called me "anti-swimmer" or "anti-sunbather".

Why do evangelical protestants confuse "share" and "impose (pester, invade one's personal space)?"

 

[DHK]

>You know, it's funny, but I share the Gospel at the beach and nobody's ever called me "anti-swimmer" or "anti-sunbather".

Why do evangelical protestants confuse "share" and "impose (pester, invade one's personal space)?"

Those are some good words to define what we should do. There are others.
Jude says that we should "Contend" for the faith, which requires "teaching."
In that particular epistle his audience is believers. He is teaching and warning them against "false teachers." We had some "false teachers," Catholic apologists, that were on this board formerly. We contended with them; defended the faith, taught others how this was wrong. It was a teaching experience. But at the same time it ended up to be an opportunity for them to proselytize some of the weaker brethren to their own false religion. That is why they are not allowed any longer.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

>You know, it's funny, but I share the Gospel at the beach and nobody's ever called me "anti-swimmer" or "anti-sunbather".

Why do evangelical protestants confuse "share" and "impose (pester, invade one's personal space)?"

To impose something upon someone means to force them to adhere to or follow it.

Sharing the Gospel is just talking to them and explaining the Gospel to them, not imposing it on them in any way.

 

[gb93433]

But at the same time it ended up to be an opportunity for them to proselytize some of the weaker brethren to their own false religion.

Excellent point you made. Too many churches today teach so little sound doctrine as if doctrine is a bad word and must be avoided in favor of things that are fun and exciting.

A few years ago I lived next door to a family that had home schooled their children. One of them came to me asking about how to share his faith with someone he knew. I was shocked because I thought that he would have easily have known how because I knew the parents read their Bible. The kids read their Bible and did homework but had never shared their faith. About one year later the oldest daughter joined the Mormon Church. Again her brother came to me asking for help. After working through him for a few months she left the Mormon Church.

 

[gb93433]

Sharing the Gospel is just talking to them and explaining the Gospel to them, not imposing it on them in any way.

If there were a fire and someone was in danger I would not talk with them as though there were no urgency. We can talk with people and share with them the gospel with great intensity in a soft voice. When they walk away they must know that their questions were answered and they are now dealing with God.