The Catholics are not lost

[donnA]

I'm curious, have you ever talked with a priest or a nun about salvation?

I think Jesus was very tolerant of sinners; i.e. woman at the well; woman taken in adultry; rich young ruler; etc., etc. But he did not have tolerance for religious bigots and those who used religion for their own ends and enhancement.

Since I grew up in a catholic home, and did talk with the priest at my grandmothers funeral, along with several other catholics, then yes, I do know. They base whether or not she was going to heaven on the fact we did not move her to the catholic church for funeral services, and the fact we did not have the priest go to her grave side to 'pray her into heaven', that in fact we sent her to hell.
We dropped the priest before the funeral even started because of his ranting and raving and going to hell if she wasn't moved immediately to the cathoilc church.
After I was saved I even studied the rcc and continue to study.
So I do have experience with the rcc.
They beleive you must complete the sacraments to go to heaven, and if you want to be forgiven for a sin you must confess it to a preist and he must forgive you, otherwise you go to hell, since it is a sacramant. Not to mention they do not beleive anyone goes to heaven when they die, they must pay for their sins in pergatory, and they may or may not go to heaven then.
None of this is biblical in the least. It is 'another gospel', not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Amy.G]

I have met saved Catholics, who have been born again. I also have a mother in law that is Catholic who does not have clue what being born again means. We had a talk about it and it actually made her angry. Obviously, one who does not know what being born again means or even care, is not born again.

The huge problem with false doctrines is that they (as Jude says) creep into the church unnoticed. It starts out with just a little thing, but like the yeast of the Pharisees, spreads to the whole lump. This doesn't happen overnight. False doctrine infects one generation, then that generation passes it down to the next, adding more false doctrine, then that generation passes down even more false teachings, until eventually the church is apostate. All because the first generation did not "contend earnestly for the faith".
That's why we must be very careful to teach correct doctrine all the time. We must fight against even the smallest error, because it will grow and grow and grow.
We need to listen carefully to Jude's warnings. God had a reason for inspiring him to write that book.
We are in warfare, not against flesh and blood, but again Satan himself.

 

[donnA]

I'm curious, have you ever talked with a priest or a nun about salvation?

I think Jesus was very tolerant of sinners; i.e. woman at the well; woman taken in adultry; rich young ruler; etc., etc. But he did not have tolerance for religious bigots and those who used religion for their own ends and enhancement.

So you believe the bible teach religious tolerance. Where? To tolerate other religions is to compromise the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
See you've already done it by proclaiming the rcc with it's false doctrine on salvation to be christian.

 

[Amy.G]

I think Jesus was very tolerant of sinners;

You will see how tolerant Jesus is of sinners at the judgement.

What you see as "tolerant" is actually patience, not willing that any should perish.

Remember, He said "go and sin no more".

 

[Agnus_Dei]

…but I always thought that catholics asked the priest for forgiveness, not God. And that they believed that church sacrements are the way to salvation, not grace.

From my experience and I’ve been a Baptist, I’ve completed Catholic RCIA classes and have now finished my Orthodox Catechesis classes and now await Chrismation in the Orthodox Church. So I’ve got to experience both worlds, so to speak.

Just a few comments on Confession; traditional Roman Catholic theology emphasizes that at a priests ordination they receive a “power” to effect the Sacraments. In regard to Confession, the priest is granted authority to forgive sins based on Jesus’ words in John 20:23…therefore, Christ has delegated the authority to forgive sins…first to His Apostles and through them to their successors.

Orthodox theology is a little different. Yes the Orthodox confess sins in the presence of their spiritual father (priest), but the priests exhortations to the penitent, makes it clear that confession is made to God, and only God alone grants forgiveness, therefore it is God who effects all the sacraments of the Church through Christ in the Holy Spirit. It is Christ whom exercises His ministry through the ministry of the priesthood…it’s not the Orthodox priest exercising autonomous power he received at ordination. This is a critical difference between the Roman Catholic and Orthodox sacramental theology.

Basically, most catholics that I personally know put their faith in the church and not in God.

Here I take issue, mainly b/c Christ sent His Apostles out to build His Church…Christ said that He would remind His Church of all things, be with His Church until the end of the age and protect His Church from the gates of hell. So Christ IS the Church and to have your faith in Christ is to have your faith in the Church, which has Christ as its corner stone.

ICXC NIKA
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[Crabtownboy]

So you believe the bible teach religious tolerance. Where? To tolerate other religions is to compromise the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
See you've already done it by proclaiming the rcc with it's false doctrine on salvation to be christian.

Well, you certainly jump to conclusions. I ask a question and received no reply. I gave examples of Christ being tolerant and you say that means I compromise the gospel. Isn't the life of Christ the greatest example we have on how to live our lives? I try to live my life by the example I see in Christ and by the Golden Rule.

Now, again, have you ever spoken to a priest or nun about salvation?

Give me examples of where Christ was intolerant, other than with the religious bigots of his day, the fundamentalist of his day?

 

[annsni]

Here I take issue, mainly b/c Christ sent His Apostles out to build His Church…Christ said that He would remind His Church of all things, be with His Church until the end of the age and protect His Church from the gates of hell. So Christ IS the Church and to have your faith in Christ is to have your faith in the Church, which has Christ as its corner stone.

ICXC NIKA
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No - Christ is not the church and there is no Biblical support for that statement.

To put your faith in a "church" is to put your faith in a false God. WE are the church and if I put my faith in anything less than the God of the universe, then I am not saved.

I agree with the others that there are those in the Catholic church that are saved but it is not the norm.

 

[annsni]

Well, you certainly jump to conclusions. I ask a question and received no reply. I gave examples of Christ being tolerant and you say that means I compromise the gospel. Isn't the life of Christ the greatest example we have on how to live our lives? I try to live my life by the example I see in Christ and by the Golden Rule.

Now, again, have you ever spoken to a priest or nun about salvation?

Give me examples of where Christ was intolerant, other than with the religious bigots of his day, the fundamentalist of his day?

Tolerate: To allow without prohibiting or opposing; permit. (from the American Heritage Dictionary)

Can you show me where Christ was tolerant to sin? Then you are saying Christ permitted sin.

 

[Samuel Owen]

In order for any Catholic to be saved, he would have to separate himself from the church. And would remain a Catholic in name only. The Catholic church does not tolerate anyone! that does not follow the practices of the church, and they would be excommunicated.

So in order to remain in good standing with the church, he must practice the doctrines of the church. So if he does this! he denies any other faith he may claim, other than the catholic faith.

I think I have gone well beyond that "TWO", times of contending. And I think its time for me to cease.

 

[dcorbett]

And we must remember that James said that faith without works is dead. That is a faith that does not result in good works is not a faith at all. Works does not save, but neither does a deat faith that brings about no good works.

As I have said in other posts, "Show me your works and I will show you your faith, or lack thereof."

He was talking about a flat belief, NOT that works obtain salvation. You don't need works to be saved, there are many places in the scripture that point blank state this. This particular definition of "dead" doesn't have anything to do with salvation.

Catholics are a cult. They believe that you must be a Catholic to get into Heaven - do you believe that?

 

[dcorbett]

Well, you certainly jump to conclusions. I ask a question and received no reply. I gave examples of Christ being tolerant and you say that means I compromise the gospel. Isn't the life of Christ the greatest example we have on how to live our lives? I try to live my life by the example I see in Christ and by the Golden Rule.

Now, again, have you ever spoken to a priest or nun about salvation?

Give me examples of where Christ was intolerant, other than with the religious bigots of his day, the fundamentalist of his day?

John 14:6 Belief on Him is the only way to be saved. And no sinning man (the Pope) can be prayed to or through - he has no special link to God. He is a man like any other man. Also, the Pope wants Mary to be co-redemptrix, so he is a false prophet. Do you follow false prophets?

 

[Agnus_Dei]

So in order to remain in good standing with the church, he must practice the doctrines of the church. So if he does this! he denies any other faith he may claim, other than the catholic faith.

LOL, funny, b/c as a Baptist I was warned by my pastor that if I attended any other church that was not in like faith I would be removed from the roll and will not remain in “good standings” with their Church. So in other words, I had to attend their church (or a church my pope approved), believe their doctrines in order to remain in good standings…

InXC
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[Matt Black]

Here I take issue, mainly b/c Christ sent His Apostles out to build His Church…Christ said that He would remind His Church of all things, be with His Church until the end of the age and protect His Church from the gates of hell. So Christ IS the Church and to have your faith in Christ is to have your faith in the Church, which has Christ as its corner stone.

ICXC NIKA
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Exactly:thumbs:

DonnA, with respect, it sounds to me that you weren't catechised properly - and neither was your priest!

[ETA - every denomination has its leftfield ministers, whether they be your priest or the fundamentalist pastor who tells you that you're going to Hellfire for wearing pants (if you're a woman) or dor touching a drop of alcohol. Whilst such individuals may be an embarrassment from time to time to their denomination, they don't invalidate the teaching of that denomination just because they thus get it wrong]

 

[Matt Black]

No - Christ is not the church and there is no Biblical support for that statement.

Whaaaat!?? You obviousy have a different Bible to mine then; Col 1:18, for example, very clearly says that He is.

 

[peterotto]

Council of Trent Session XI CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.

It is impossible to be "born-again" or "saved" and remain Roman Catholic. Unless you redefine the words. Those Catholics that you believe are "saved" are condemned to hell from Rome's point of view. So why do they continue to be Catholic? Either by ignorance, or more likely, they were never "saved" to begin with.

Those of you who believe you know someone who is "saved" and is Catholic, ask them this question. When were you saved? The answer my come as a surprise to you. Some will say since they were baptized, others might say they were allways. Chew on that.

 

[Matt Black]

Hmmm...you obviously haven't read the joint Catholic-Lutheran Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, have you?

 

[Samuel Owen]

Whaaaat!?? You obviousy have a different Bible to mine then; Col 1:18, for example, very clearly says that He is.

Thou misunderstandeth. Christ is the head of the body, who is the Church. Being made up of the Bride, or believers. These are the Church.

 

[peterotto]

Hmmm...you obviously haven't read the joint Catholic-Lutheran Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, have you?

I don't need to. The Roman Catholic Church has never changed from what the Council of Trent teaches. Please tell me, what changes were made from this joint declaration?

 

[Samuel Owen]

I don't need to. The Roman Catholic Church has never changed from what the Council of Trent teaches. Please tell me, what changes were made from this joint declaration?

Shhh, be quite, its just you know who, trying to form that One World Church.

Oh yes, I am not contending now, just making comments.

 

[annsni]

Whaaaat!?? You obviousy have a different Bible to mine then; Col 1:18, for example, very clearly says that He is.

No, we have the same Bible. Col 1:18 says:

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Note that He is the head of the body - the church. It is not saying that He is the church but the HEAD of the church.

Matthew 16:18 says "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." So He is going to build Himself upon this rock? Weird.

Acts 2:47 says "Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." The Lord added to Himself?

Acts 5:11 "And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things." Christ had great fear?

There's more but I think that suffices. Christ is the head of the church - His bride. But He is NOT the church.