The Catholics link to Idolatry from Ancient Baylon

To be honest, you've mentioned it on the board before.

And I also remember that fact from visiting various Churches during my Seminary days.

Ron

 

What part of Exodus 25:18 and Exodus 26:31 tells you that?

Scrpitural citation, please.

As I said, superfical only.

Jesus ascended into Heaven, but He did not cease to exist.

Jesus is not pure spirit. Scripture does not tell us that His corporal body ceased to exist.

Sounds like you are on your way to inventing a new herasy.

You believe that the entire history of the Church is contained in the Bible?

Exodus 25:18-20
1Chr 28:18-19
Ezekiel 41:17-18
Numbers 21:8-9
1Kings 6:29-32
1Kings 8:6-66
2Chr 3:7-14

 

And this is why you will forever be wrong. God never said that. You did. Not God. God said not to worship graven images. He said nothing about using them as an aid to worship.

It doesn't get more simple than that. And if you cannot provide an honest argument, I don't know if I should bother. GOD DID NOT SAY WHAT YOU SAID HE SAID.

 

By the way, while you responded, you did not answer my question; you dodged it by asking me questions in return. It matters not if God sanctioned the Church to make images or not. You say that God demands that we not use images as an "aid to worship," but the Ark, in you own words, was used JUST FOR THAT. Therefore, sanctioned or not, you are left with the choices that:

1) You are wrong, and images are perfectly acceptable of worship of the ONE TRUE GOD, or

2) God asked man to break the law he told them previously not to break.

2 is false, because God would not ask us to break His own law, thus 1 must be true.

 

trying2understand,

You attempt to justify your idolatry is not even worthy of a school child.No one "bows down" to photographs of departed family members.Here is the "context" of the commandment not to make carved images:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any carved image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..."(Ex.20:4,5).

The act of "bowing down" is in regard to "worship",and the Lord does not want any believer to be "bowing down" to anyone or anything other than Himself:

"O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker"(Ps.95:6).

I can just see the idolaters explaining their behavior to the Lord in that day when they come face to face with the Lord,saying:

"But you yourself told the Israelites to make images,so I thought that if it was alright for you then it must be alright for me."

"And if it is OK to have photographs of our departed ones then surely it is OK to make carved images and bow down to them."

All I can say is I would not want to be you in that day when "God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ".

Here is the Lord's opinion of those who "bowed down" to the images of "the queen of heaven" (and what a coincidence,that is exactly the same name that Rome has given to Mary):

"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger"(Jer.7:18).

You will be without excuse because you have been told the truth concerning idolatry on this forum,and if you think that the anger of GOd will be appeased by your flimsy excuses you will be in for a big surprise.The Lord will not be mocked without serious consequences.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

Actually, Bob, the source did not say that, but as usual, you'll take something and twist it to whatever mold you need to fill. Here is what it said:

the gentile had local gods for their town or country, and our Christian Saints eventually supplanted Them!

It does not imply a continuation. It means that the practice of saintly intercession SUPPLANTED, or replaced, the practice of praying to household gods. One practice is replacing another, not the same practicing continuing with different names. You came with that assertion and forced it into the text, but that is not what the text says.

 

Will God be pleased by your lying, Jerry? Where does it say anything about bowing down to the Queen of Heaven? I see them making cakes and pouring out drink offerings to "other gods." If you find someone making cakes or making offerings to Mary as if she were God, lemme know their names, and I'll write a letter to their bishops, because the practice should be stopped.

However, there was no "bowing down," which you said there was. There was explicit worshipping by making sacrifices to the "queen of heaven." Not the same thing, Jerry. Not the same thing at all.

 

Instead of answering mine? All too typical.

I wouldn't do it if I didn't.

Because God does not wish us to worship "any god before him." And I do not. My love for God is greater than any other love in my life.

Should not our entire lives be lives of prayer and worship? And yet in the beginning, God made woman for man so that "he would not be alone." Really, I thought he was with God? You see, apparently God is not jealous of the true love we have for our brothers and sisters in Christ; after all, they are gifts in our lives, and love itself is a gift. God is jealous of false love given to creation that is due to him; putting creature above God. That does not mean that we are too ignore God's gifts in our lives when we worship Him; rather, we thank Him for those gifts! We thank Him for blessing us with pious men and women whose lives allow us to reflect more deeply on our own need of a relationship with God.

By honoring the saints, we are saying "Thank you God! Assist my life with your love and bring it to perfection as you have in these your children, our brothers and sisters!"

How can God be jealous of true love when that is a gift from Himself?

NOW, please answer MY questions.

 

But you just said God commanded us not to use images to "aid in worship." How can that which is the "center of worship" not be an "aid in worship?"

How many more times will you contradict yourself?

Good, we're in agreement. And that continues today. Case closed.

 

I see you still have not answered my question. Such a trend.

I suppose you do not honor your wife? Or your kids? Your parents? Oh...you do these things? But doesn't God get angry at you? Isn't he jealous of the love you give them?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Good. He doesn't for anyone. God makes saints; the pope recognizes them.

 

We don't "honor" statues.

Nor do we "service" them.

Nor do we "worship" them.

But of course, you have been told this several times already.

Shall I ask you now why you honor, worship, and service the photo images of your departed "saved" friends and family? Please don't tell me that you merely use them for rememberance.

If you are capable of judging intent in others, why would deny my ability to do the same of you.

BTW, where does Scripture say anything about "an aid in worship". You have totaly made this up, just as you made up your belief that Jesus is only Spirit.

 

GraceSaves,

There is plenty of evidence from secular sources that it was "Ashtoreth" who was called the "queen of heaven":

"Astarte/Ashtoreth is the Queen of Heaven to whom the Canaanites had burned incense and poured libations."(Encyclopedia Britannica).

And the Scriptures reveal that there were some who forsook the Lord and "bowed down" to Ashtaroth,the "queen of heaven":

"And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth...And it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they returned, and corrupted themselves more than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down unto them; they ceased not from their own doings, nor from their stubborn way"(Jud.2:13,19).

And when Josiah came into power he destroyed the images of the "queen of heaven",Ashtoreth:

"And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had builded for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians...And he brake in pieces the images, and cut down the groves, and filled their places with the bones of men"(2Ki.23:13,14).

You can believe that no one "bowed down" to the "queen of heaven" although they served here.You can also believe that even though they burned incense unto her and poured out drink offerings to her and made cakes to her that they did not bow down to her.

And you can call me a "liar" for saying that they "bowed down" to the "queen of heaven",but that does not change the fact that they did in fact "bow down" to her.

In His grace,--Jerry