The Church - is it a building?

[Salty]

From another thread

The building is not the church. It is our place of meeting but too often people put the building before the congregation.
There is a business side to the church but too often the business side becomes the focus and main engine of the local church.

When the building and business become more important than the Gospel, the local church becomes secularized and one more non profit club on the block. Membership numbers, bricks and dollars will supercede evangelism, discipleship and worship.

Yep, a return to the basics is needed. Preach, teach, baptize and disciple.
That said, I need to get busy at it.

YES - the church is a building -- simple English language.
Just as the word "Love" has three meanings - 1) love of husband and wife, 2) friendship 3) - Agape =
Gods perfect love. One word has three different meanings. In English, church has more than one meaning.

Granted, in the Bible - the church is used in the NT 77 times -
the word church is translated from: ekklēsia
These are the definitions of ekklēsia from Blue Bible

in a Christian sense

1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
   
   
2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
   

3. those who anywhere in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body

4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth

5 the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven


If you look at #4 - that sounds like a universal church!
and yes # 1 & 3 are considerations of the local church.

 

[Alan Gross]

From another thread



YES - the church is a building -- simple English language.
Just as the word "Love" has three meanings - 1) love of husband and wife, 2) friendship 3) - Agape =
Gods perfect love. One word has three different meanings. In English, church has more than one meaning.

Granted, in the Bible - the church is used in the NT 77 times -
the word church is translated from: ekklēsia
These are the definitions of ekklēsia from Blue Bible

in a Christian sense

1. 
   
   
   • an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
   • a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake

3. those who anywhere in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body

4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth

5 the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven


If you look at #4 - that sounds like a universal church!
and yes # 1 & 3 are considerations of the local church.

from: 8.0.5b TEN SCRIPTURAL PROOFS of ‘The Churches that JESUS BUILT’ AND PROMISED TO BE WITH, “ALWAYS”.

One thing we can be sure of: if Jesus Spoke The Truth

— and what real Christian would deny this? —

the church that Jesus built has been in the world ever since

and will be here till He Comes Again.

…

The popular “Protestant” dogma in this connection

speaks of an “invisible” church to which all Christians belong.

…

More on this as we go along,

but for the present note a few simple facts:

…

a. Neither the expression “invisible church”,

nor the idea of such an expression

can be found in the New Testament.

…

b. The whole purpose of the “invisible church” dogma

is to justify the Protestant splits from Roman Catholicism.

…

But since Baptists are not Protestants

and were never a part of the heretical Catholic system,

we have no need of any such dogma to justify our existence.

…

c. Most Protestants and many ignorant Baptists

suppose that Christ built two churches;

that is, two kinds of churches:

the “invisible church” of their own vain imagining

and the organized assemblies

that they cannot help recognizing in the New Testament.

…

Then, to add insult to injury, they call their imaginary monstrosity

the “true” church!

…

But the Bible says there is only one body (church),

that is, one kind of body,

just as there is only one baptism,

that is, one kind of baptism [Ephesians 4:4-5].

…

d. Since there is no just reason to do otherwise,

we must understand that Jesus used the word,

“church” [Greek “ekklesia] in Matthew 16:18

in the same general sense

that it has everywhere else in the New Testament:

that is, an assembly,

almost always an organized assembly.

…

The word here is used abstractly;

that is, it expresses an idea whose realization is to be found

in a particular organized assembly.

*****

Baptist History Homepage, A Source for Original Baptist Documents

"[A]sk now of the days that are past..." Deuteronomy 4:32

- "Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders and they will tell thee." Deuteronomy 32:7

- "Enquire, I pray thee, of the former age." Job 8:8

- "[T]hat ye may tell it to the generation following." Psalm 48:13

- "I have considered the days of old." Psalm 77:5

- "That the generation to come might know." Psalm 78:6

- "This shall be written for the generation to come." Psalm 102:18

- "Remember the former things of old." Isaiah 46:9

- "Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation." Joel 1:3 -

"Call to remembrance the former days." Hebrews 10:32

- "To put you always in remembrance of these things." II Peter 1:12. [kjv]

 

[Deacon]

A local assembly of believers meeting together in fellowship can be called a church whether they meet in a building, a tavern, outside in the woods or hidden away in a cave.

The building where a congregation meets can be called a “church“ by association.

But biblically, a building by itself is not “the church”.

Here in Pennsylvania the building where the Society of Friends, or the Quakers gather is called a “Meeting House” rather than a “church”.
They’re still quite a few around.


I pass the Langhorne Meeting House on my way to work.

Rob

 

[Alan Gross]

"The biblical metaphor of the body of Christ is misunderstood by Catholics, Protestants, and many Baptists.

"In his book, The Body of Christ: Separating Myth from Metaphor, pastor and teacher Chuck Hunt brings into sharp focus the true meaning of this metaphor."

The Body of Christ: Separating Myth from Metaphor

 

[church mouse guy]

From another thread



YES - the church is a building -- simple English language.
Just as the word "Love" has three meanings - 1) love of husband and wife, 2) friendship 3) - Agape =
Gods perfect love. One word has three different meanings. In English, church has more than one meaning.

Granted, in the Bible - the church is used in the NT 77 times -
the word church is translated from: ekklēsia
These are the definitions of ekklēsia from Blue Bible

in a Christian sense

1. 
   
   
   • an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
   • a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake

3. those who anywhere in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body

4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth

5 the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven


If you look at #4 - that sounds like a universal church!
and yes # 1 & 3 are considerations of the local church.

I thought English only had one word "love" used to translate several different Greek words?

 

[Salty]

I thought English only had one word "love" used to translate several different Greek words?

Isnt that what I said?

 

[Dave G]

The building is not the church. It is our place of meeting but too often people put the building before the congregation.
There is a business side to the church but too often the business side becomes the focus and main engine of the local church.

When the building and business become more important than the Gospel, the local church becomes secularized and one more non profit club on the block. Membership numbers, bricks and dollars will supercede evangelism, discipleship and worship.

Yep, a return to the basics is needed. Preach, teach, baptize and disciple.

No, the church is not the building and it never has been:

" Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." ( Ephesians 5:25-27 ).

" Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." ( 1 Peter 2:5 ).

It is the gathering of God's people together for instruction in righteousness and for the building up of each other in the faith.
Nothing more and nothing less.
When we put more attention on the building than the Lord did, it's like putting more attention on the body than on the soul that is saved...
The building will fade, but the people are eternal in Christ.

I say:
Let us therefore put our efforts and money into them, and not waste what the Lord has given us on things that will pass away, my friends.

" Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." ( Matthew 6:19-21 ).


May the Lord remind us of what is really important each and every day.

 

[37818]

A side note on our English word "church." Without going into details of the word's etymology it is my understanding our word "church" comes from a meaing being "the Lord's"

 

[Salty]

making a big deal out of nothing

 

[atpollard]

making a big deal out of nothing

This is the BB ... THATS WHAT BAPTISTS DO!
(Its not like we can have a split and form two boards across the street from each other like Baptist Churches do.)

 

[Salty]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Salty]

This is the BB ... THATS WHAT BAPTISTS DO!
(Its not like we can have a split and form two boards across the street from each other like Baptist Churches do.)

The "c" in Baptist churches should NOT be capitalize unless you are referring to a specific Baptist Church - (I really should report your post)

 

[atpollard]

I really should report your post

It would not be my first infraction, but it would be the first infraction where I was genuinely ignorant of any rule having been broken. Surely there are no “capitalization Nazi’s” that enforce grammar with an iron fist.

The post was intended as humor based on the old joke about Baptists practicing “multiplication through division”, which is funny because it contains an element of truth. Many towns will have one Catholic church and one Methodist church and one Episcopal church, but I have yet to encounter a town with only one Baptist church. There always seems to be at least two Baptists churches in every community. Often there is a story about how one church split off from the other over some issue.

If acknowledging that reality is a “reportable offense”, then so be it.

 

[Salty]

The post was intended as humor based on the old joke about Baptists practicing “multiplication through division”, which is funny because it contains an element of truth.

As was mine!

, but I have yet to encounter a town with only one Baptist church. ...

On a serious note - I had mentioned elsewhere - that in our county - about 6 out of 12 towns - have no Baptist church.

If acknowledging that reality is a “reportable offense”, then so be it.

didnt realize I would be taken literally

 

[Calminian]

...YES - the church is a building -- simple English language......

Indeed. We don't need to deny modern nomenclature, just understand it.

 

[Logos1560]

The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology noted that the English word church developed from the Old English cirice that meant a "public place of worship" (p. 171).

In his 1828 dictionary, Noah Webster gave the following as the first definition for the word church: "A house consecrated to the worship of God, among Christians; the Lord's house. This seems to be the original meaning of the word." The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church also pointed out that the English word church applied originally to a church building (p. 344). The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Reformation asserted that the term congregation "described a gathering or assembly" while the term church "suggested a structure or organization" (IV, p. 190).

William Tyndale used the English word “church” for buildings or temples as seen in Acts 14:13 [“the church porch”] and Acts 19:37 [“robbers of churches”]. Likewise, Miles Coverdale used the English word “church” or “churches” for buildings intended for worship. For example, the 1535 Coverdale’s Bible has “churches” at Hosea 8:14 where the KJV has “temples.” It also has “churches” (Lev. 26:31, Amos 7:9) where the KJV has “sanctuaries.”

In a sermon in the official 1500's Church of England Homilies, it is stated: “We have in the first part of this Homily declared by God’s Word, that the temple or church is the house of the Lord” (Griffiths, Certain Sermons, pp. 170-171). It also stated: “The material church or temple is a place appointed for the people of God to resort together unto” (p. 164).

 

[Logos1560]

In at least one verse, the KJV is said to use the rendering "churches" for buildings or temples.

In a copy of a book reprinted by D. A. Waite's The Bible for Today, Alexander McClure wrote: "[Archbishop Richard] Bancroft, that he might for once stick the name [church] to a material building, would have it applied, in the nineteenth chapter of Acts, to the idols' temples! 'Robbers of churches' are strictly, according to the word in the original, temple-robbers; and particularly, in this case, such as might have plundered the great temple of Diana at Ephesus. Let us be thankful that the dictatorial prelate tried his hand no farther at emending the sacred text" (KJV Translators Revived, p. 221).

Henry Fox asserted: “As an instance of his emendations we may note the 37th verse of the 18th chapter of the Acts. The words which the translators had quite correctly translated ‘robbers of temples,‘ Bancroft altered into ‘robbers of churches,‘ in order to furnish a Scripture precedent for the word ‘church’ being applied to a material building” (On the Revision, pp. 7-8).

John R. Beard claimed: “That he might for once stick the name church to a material building, he insisted on its being applied, in the nineteenth chapter of Acts, verse thirty-seven, to idols’ temples--‘neither robbers of churches,‘ in the original ‘temple-robbers’” (A Revised English Bible, p. 87). Silas Shepard asserted that Bancroft “compelled them to translate hierosulous (Acts 19:37), ‘robbers of churches,‘ when he knew that the word meant robbers of temples, or temple robbers, and that it referred to heathen temples. This gave authority for calling houses for religious convocations churches. So, by a false translation of one passage, he laid a foundation for English prelacy, and by the same violence to the Word of God, he transferred the name of a congregation to the house in which they convened” (British Millennial Harbinger, Vol. VIII, p. 75; The Reviser, 1855, p. 58).