The church was the intended audience...

[Revmitchell]

Con 1 has given a proper observation and a challenge that I believe you have misread.

He claims the objectors have imaginary enemies....caricatures of the truth......
Now he offers the challenge.....step up......to you and any other person.....to show line by line where you believe what he posted..... is right or wrong and why. ..
.so now......you two......play nice

His "caricature" you say was childish and unnecessary and displays an animosity toward those who disagree with his position.

 

[convicted1]

That's 4 replies and zero address the OP...

 

[Rippon]

All Scripture Cited Is From NIV

PT

every single person Peter spoke of in 2 pet 3.......to usward....is going to be saved......not one will be lost.....they are chosen by God. ...He will seek and save all He has purposed to save.......not one more....not one less
to say otherwise is to misunderstand the whole chapter......

That's right Icon.

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

"Patient with you" refers to the Christians he is addressing.

"Through these he has given us his great and precious promises,(2 Peter 1:4)
"Us" = Christians alone.

"Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you...(2Peter 3:1)

"Dear friends" =Christians.

"Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come...(2 Peter 3:3)

Peter is distinguishing "you" --Christians, from the scoffers.

"To God's elect scattered throughout the provinces...(1 Peter 1:1)

Peter is addressing his readers --the elect -Christians --believers.

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession...(1Peter 2:9)

Who does the pronoun "you" refer to? God's elect --Christians --believers. He purchased these special people --not everyone in general.

Therefore, 2 Peter 3:9 means that he will not have any of His elect to perish --and them alone.

 

[Protestant]

Oh and btw, you are the one who was banned for how long, two years? Don't talk to me about being childish.....

I am shocked and saddened that the righteous reverend was once banned by this Board.

Surely after two years in purgatory Mr. Mitchell's demeanor should have made a radical adjustment.

But alas, his unbridled petulance keeps resurfacing with frightful frequency.

 

[convicted1]

In the KJV, that verse reads "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Try as you might, that verse speaks to me of a universal desire of God that mankind would turn to Him. He is not willing that anyone should die, but His desire is that all come to repentance. If God's grace is as irresistible as the Calvinist claims it to be, why does God simply not move all mankind to repent and live in harmony with Him? Could it be that, because of the separation caused by the Fall, and by the ingrained will that a sovereign God granted His creation, that mankind has to come to God, or reject God, under their own volition after hearing the preached Word and feeling the drawing power of the Holy Ghost of God?

Context is always the key, always. Who was Peter referring to here? Here's a hint...

--Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.(2 Pet. 1:1-4 KJV)

This is a letter addressed to the elect of God, both Jew and Gentile. It is addressed to those who God has chosen from the foundation of the world. This letter is just as alive now as it was then. 2 Pet. 3:9 is addressed to the us-ward not willing that any of them would perish, but come to repentance. Now, where does repentance come from, God or man? Here's another hint...

--Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?(Rom. 2:1-4 KJV)

Sorry, Bro. Willis, but you're using the same Calvinist trap that others have tried. You don't want the word "whosoever" to mean "whosoever," you want it to mean "the Elect." You don't want "the world" to mean "the world," you want it to mean "the Elect." I've been accused before (not here) of over-spiritualizing scripture, but to read John 3:16 literally would give anyone the impression that God sent Jesus for the whole world; not just a small part of it.

The word 'world' doesn't always mean the 'encompassing globe'. There are differing meanings when and where it's used. The same goes for 'all', 'every', 'many', &c. Here are some examples....

--For this cause the people also met him, for that they heard that he had done this miracle. The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him. And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:(John 12:18-20 KJV)


Now, is the whole world, everyone that was alive at that time gone after Jesus or was it those there that wanted to see Lazarus alive after Jesus resurrected him? You decide...



--If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.(John 15:18-20 KJV)

--I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.(John 17:9 KJV)


Is the world referenced here the encompassing world of the world of none believers? You decide....


--I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.(John 17:15-18 KJV)


Here Jesus uses the word 'world' in two differing aspects, the entire world as a whole and also the world of unbelievers...

So words such as 'world', 'every', 'all', &c have differing defintions in regards to their contexts....

The KJV reads "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." This feels like a stretch to apply this verse only to the Elect. Again, you are making "him that heareth" and "whosoever" apply only to the Elect. If that makes you feel better, then go for it. I don't see it that way.

Again, the call is to those who are athirst...IE thirsty. Blessed are they which thirst and hunger after righteousness, for THEY shall be filled. Again, who are those who are filled? Those who are hungry and thirsty. Who are those invited to take of the water of life freely? Those who are athirst....IE thirsty....

Sure, it's only for a select few. The rest of you can just give up. You never had a chance. God never loved you and never intended to even approach you with intent to save. You were damned to Hell before you were even created in your mother's womb. You do realize that's the flip side to the Calvinist argument for Election, right? A vast multitude of people bound for Hell and the eventual Lake of Fire through no action of their own, but simply because God never loved them and intended to damn them before the foundation of the world.

Where was God's love at for the ones He told His people to obliterate off the land He had promised to give to the people of Abram's/Abraham's lineage? He told His people to kill even the infants of that people. There was no covenant He made with the Philistines. They had their own God. Where was the love when Jesus told the Pharisees they were of their father, the devil?

God's love is found in His Son, Jesus, and those who were given by Him to Jesus to redeem from the world of the lost. His intended audience was the church....

 

[convicted1]

Brother Tony,

First off, I want to thank you for engaging in the OP. You're the only one who has truly dealt with it head on. :thumbsup:


Now, I want to go through and use some of the verses that your side uses to support universal redemption and show you that your exegesis is off....I will do this as civilly as I possibly can. You are one who can take it as well as dish it out, and I love that, and respect that, about you. :thumbsup:



--And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.(2 Cor. 5:15-21 KJV)


Here we can read that 'And that He died for 'all', that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again'. Now, if you stop right there(vs 15), universal redemption looks fine and dandy. Then after you read the first portion of (vs 19) where it says 'God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself', and universal redemption looks golden. But read that last portion of (vs 19) where it says 'not imputing their trespasses unto them'. Now, if God was reconciling the 'encompassing globe' unto Himself through Christ, then the 'encompassing globe' will not have their trespasses imputted unto them. If their trespasses are not imputted unto the 'encompassing globe', then everyone is saved, seeing their sins(trespasses) are not imputted(accounted) unto them.

Then Paul wrote 'and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation'. Now, who is the us Paul was referring to? It was the Corinthian church, and subsequently, all the redeemed of all ages.

 

[The American Dream]

Context is always the key, always. Who was Peter referring to here? Here's a hint...

--Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.(2 Pet. 1:1-4 KJV)

This is a letter addressed to the elect of God, both Jew and Gentile. It is addressed to those who God has chosen from the foundation of the world. This letter is just as alive now as it was then. 2 Pet. 3:9 is addressed to the us-ward not willing that any of them would perish, but come to repentance. Now, where does repentance come from, God or man? Here's another hint...

--Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?(Rom. 2:1-4 KJV)





The word 'world' doesn't always mean the 'encompassing globe'. There are differing meanings when and where it's used. The same goes for 'all', 'every', 'many', &c. Here are some examples....

--For this cause the people also met him, for that they heard that he had done this miracle. The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him. And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:(John 12:18-20 KJV)


Now, is the whole world, everyone that was alive at that time gone after Jesus or was it those there that wanted to see Lazarus alive after Jesus resurrected him? You decide...



--If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.(John 15:18-20 KJV)

--I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.(John 17:9 KJV)


Is the world referenced here the encompassing world of the world of none believers? You decide....


--I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.(John 17:15-18 KJV)


Here Jesus uses the word 'world' in two differing aspects, the entire world as a whole and also the world of unbelievers...

So words such as 'world', 'every', 'all', &c have differing defintions in regards to their contexts....




Again, the call is to those who are athirst...IE thirsty. Blessed are they which thirst and hunger after righteousness, for THEY shall be filled. Again, who are those who are filled? Those who are hungry and thirsty. Who are those invited to take of the water of life freely? Those who are athirst....IE thirsty....







Where was God's love at for the ones He told His people to obliterate off the land He had promised to give to the people of Abram's/Abraham's lineage? He told His people to kill even the infants of that people. There was no covenant He made with the Philistines. They had their own God. Where was the love when Jesus told the Pharisees they were of their father, the devil?

God's love is found in His Son, Jesus, and those who were given by Him to Jesus to redeem from the world of the lost. His intended audience was the church....

Hi convicted,

I have not been on here in a while. My Dad died, his estate is a mess with a step mother in the mix, and we moved my 92 yo mother in law. Anyway, Dad is being buried at Arlington April 23.

Back to the op, I heard a new take on all this from someone the other day I have never heard before. It sounds like a statement that neither side would agree with. It goes something like this. Christ died on the cross for everyone (unlimited atonement) but the elect is the final product. In other words, even if one believes that Christ on the cross only died for the elect, (Limited atonement), the end result of who receives eternal life is exactly the same. I still do not know what to make of that.

That is one of the best posts above I have ever seen you make.

Oh and by the way, Happy Belated Birthday fro yesterday.

 

[convicted1]

Hi convicted,

:wavey: :smilewinkgrin:

I have not been on here in a while. My Dad died, his estate is a mess with a step mother in the mix, and we moved my 92 yo mother in law. Anyway, Dad is being buried at Arlington April 23.

I am so sorry to hear about your loss and struggles. My dad is in deteriorating health and if the good Lord doesn't intervene soon, he won't live much longer I'm afraid. Please pray for him.

Back to the op, I heard a new take on all this from someone the other day I have never heard before. It sounds like a statement that neither side would agree with. It goes something like this. Christ died on the cross for everyone (unlimited atonement) but the elect is the final product. In other words, even if one believes that Christ on the cross only died for the elect, (Limited atonement), the end result of who receives eternal life is exactly the same. I still do not know what to make of that.

This is what they refer to...if I can spell it right...amyraldianism(sp?)...IOW a four-pointer. I disagree with that stance. But to each his own.

That is one of the best posts above I have ever seen you make.

Thank you for the kind words. I do try awfully hard to get this right. I am not saying I've cornered the market, but I am not out playing in the traffic, either. :smilewinkgrin:

Oh and by the way, Happy Belated Birthday fro yesterday.

Uhhh...thanks? My birthday is 5/1. You must think I'm a fewl? :thumbs:

 

[The American Dream]

:wavey: :smilewinkgrin:




I am so sorry to hear about your loss and struggles. My dad is in deteriorating health and if the good Lord doesn't intervene soon, he won't live much longer I'm afraid. Please pray for him.



This is what they refer to...if I can spell it right...amyraldianism(sp?)...IOW a four-pointer. I disagree with that stance. But to each his own.



Thank you for the kind words. I do try awfully hard to get this right. I am not saying I've cornered the market, but I am not out playing in the traffic, either. :smilewinkgrin:



Uhhh...thanks? My birthday is 5/1. You must think I'm a fewl? :thumbs:

Seen that title before but cannot pronounce it. I agree with you on the issue.

 

[robustheologian]

Those who oppose the Doctrines of Grace, do so because they are akin to Don Quixote, and find an image that isn't what they deem it to be. I should know, I was in their ranks for 7+ years. They have these Doctrines in their minds as an ogre, an overbearing ogre, who is very cruel. Yet, that is far from the truth. Jesus made many statements of who He came to redeem from the world of the lost...





As you can plainly read here, there is ONE Shepherd and ONE flock. The sheep have always been sheep. Even before being saved, we were His sheep; sheep having gone astray(Isa. 53:6). This is why Jesus had to come and die as a man here on earth, to redeem us with His blood. For without the shedding of blood there is no remission(Heb. 9:22). By His death, He brought atonement, and this atonement brought with it reconciliation. Now, if Christ did indeed die for every man, woman, and child, then all have been reconciled to God through Christ. This is where verses such as John 3:16, 2 Pet. 3:9, 1 John 2:2, Rev. 22:17, and 2 Cor. 5:19 get shredded to doll rags by the non-cals. Christ's death brought reconciliation to all the elect, and not merely potential reconciliation. If Christ died for all, and not all of us who ever lived were saved, then Christ has been provened to be the biggest failure of all time. But we know that His death brought reconciliation to the elect, the church, the sheep, the bride of Christ, &c.

Then in His resurrection, He was resurrected for an certain, an intended audience...the church, the sheep, the elect, the bride of Christ, &c. Who was He risen for? The elect or all mankind without exception? Let's let the bible prove this one for itself....





Now, if Christ was risen for everybody without exception, you have a bunch of reconciled and justified sinners in hell as we speak. Justification is via faith, and this faith is from God, as Rom. 12:3, Gal. 3:8, & Heb. 12:2 plainly states as biblical fact.

So if Christ died and was risen for all mankind, then Christ failed miserably, seeing that He died for His sheep and these sheep He said He would not lose one of then. Then He arose for our justification, so then if He justified all mankind and all mankind was not saved, how poor is this justification?


In closing....

--Christ died for the church...Eph. 5:25
--He arose for OUR(I.E. church) justification...Rom. 4:25
--He gives faith to the church...Gal. 3:8, Heb. 12:2, Rom. 5:8
--He will return to gather in His sheep at His 2nd coming...Matt. 25, 1 Thess. 4, John 5:28,29, Rev. 20, 1 Cor. 15


Everything this Man did, He did it for His sheep, the ones the Father gave to Him from before the foundation of the world...John 10, John 17, Eph. 1, Rom. 8...

:applause: This is just so good. I agree...Christ's atonement equals justification which equals salvation from hell. So universal atonement equals universal justification which equals universal salvation from hell...which is universalism. Yet the Arminian will refute universalism. Oh the inconsistencies.

 

[convicted1]

:applause: This is just so good. I agree...Christ's atonement equals justification which equals salvation from hell. So universal atonement equals universal justification which equals universal salvation from hell...which is universalism. Yet the Arminian will refute universalism. Oh the inconsistencies.

Thank you ever so much for the kind words, Brother RT...

:wavey: :love2: :flower:

 

[convicted1]

Brother Tony,

Allow me to tackle another verse those who support 'universal redemption' to support their belief...


--And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.(1 John 2:2 KJV)


Now, if you just read this verse alone w/o any considerations from other places in the bible such as Rom. 8, John 10, John 17, Eph. 1, Ezek. 34, Rom. 11 &c., universal redemption would rule the day. And if anyone didn't do an indepth study of it, universal redemption would be proven. But what exactly does the word 'propitiation' mean? It means....


I.
an appeasing, propitiating

II.
the means of appeasing, a propitiation


It actually appeases God's wrath concerning sin. So if Christ propitiated everybody's sins, even those who never heard His glorious name uttered, would not have the wrath of God abiding upon them. So then there would be no punishment to dole out on the day of judgement, seeing that Christ propitiated everyone's sins.

If you truly study universal redemption/unlimited atonement to its very end, you come up with univeralism...

 

[robustheologian]

Brother Tony,

Allow me to tackle another verse those who support 'universal redemption' to support their belief...


--And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.(1 John 2:2 KJV)


Now, if you just read this verse alone w/o any considerations from other places in the bible such as Rom. 8, John 10, John 17, Eph. 1, Ezek. 34, Rom. 11 &c., universal redemption would rule the day. And if anyone didn't do an indepth study of it, universal redemption would be proven. But what exactly does the word 'propitiation' mean? It means....


I.
an appeasing, propitiating

II.
the means of appeasing, a propitiation


It actually appeases God's wrath concerning sin. So if Christ propitiated everybody's sins, even those who never heard His glorious name uttered, would not have the wrath of God abiding upon them. So then there would be no punishment to dole out on the day of judgement, seeing that Christ propitiated everyone's sins.

If you truly study universal redemption/unlimited atonement to its very end, you come up with univeralism...

You are saying everything right. I always said that those who use 1 John 2:2 to defend universal atonement do not truly understand what propitiation means.

 

[convicted1]

Here's another verse I will tackle....


--And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.(John 12:32 KJV)


Now, the question is this...'how does Christ draw people'? Let's show what the bible states how this happen....


--But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.(Rom. 10:8-17)

And furthermore.....


--All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.(John 6:37-45 KJV)


Jesus draws people unto Himself via the gospel. Rom. 1:16, 10:8-17, 1 Cor. 1:21, & Eph. 1:13 bear this biblical truth out. Now, if not everyone who ever lived/lives hasn't heard this most glorious gospel, then what? They can not believe in One they never knew existed.

The native american indian believed in a 'happy hunting ground' and even left the hearts of the animals they killed in the woods, because they thought their spirits would roam the woods. They believed in a 'hearafter', but they never believed in Christ, because they never knew about Him, neither heard the gospel preached unto them until after the settlers came unto them ca. 1620ish...

The greek word used for 'draw' in John 12:32....


I.
to draw, drag off

II.
metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

So Jesus just doesn't set there and bid all to come unto Him, but rather, He draws, drags by an inward power, and brings His sheep unto Himself...

 

[convicted1]

You are saying everything right. I always said that those who use 1 John 2:2 to defend universal atonement do not truly understand what propitiation means.

Bingo! It satisfied God's wrath. Now, if the propitiation Christ made was for everyone, then where is God's wrath? God's wrath was poured out upon His ownly begotten, full of grace and truth. Even those who die/died lost, there's no wrath from God if Christ propitiated their sins. Universal atonement=universalism...

 

[Rolfe]

I have not been on here in a while. My Dad died, his estate is a mess with a step mother in the mix, and we moved my 92 yo mother in law. Anyway, Dad is being buried at Arlington April 23.

So very sorry to read of your loss, AD. You and your family have my sympathies.

 

[tyndale1946]

Bingo! It satisfied God's wrath. Now, if the propitiation Christ made was for everyone, then where is God's wrath? God's wrath was poured out upon His ownly begotten, full of grace and truth. Even those who die/died lost, there's no wrath from God if Christ propitiated their sins. Universal atonement=universalism...

I agree but I grew up hearing that since the age of six. I never came out of anything like you other brethren. I have been listening to the Amazing Grace message over 60 years. He tread the winepress alone!... Brother Glen

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Sure, it's only for a select few. The rest of you can just give up. You never had a chance. God never loved you and never intended to even approach you with intent to save. You were damned to Hell before you were even created in your mother's womb. You do realize that's the flip side to the Calvinist argument for Election, right? A vast multitude of people bound for Hell and the eventual Lake of Fire through no action of their own, but simply because God never loved them and intended to damn them before the foundation of the world.

Preacher Tony, does God love the "workers of iniquity" referenced in the following verse, "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity"? (Psalm 5:5)

 

[convicted1]

I am just starting an extensive study on Romans and I hope to do so for the next year. I want to study it and other relating verses from other books that Paul used as he wrote that letter to the church @ Rome.


I came across a couple verses that I want to bring to light....


--First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. (Rom. 1:8 KJV)


Right here is a prime example of where the two-word phrase 'whole world' doesn't mean the 'encompassing globe', imo. Was the Roman church's faith know in the lands that would later become America, Canada, Mexico, Russia, Australia, Brazil, Columbia, American Samoa, the Fiji Islands, &c.? Of course not. The 'whole world' was that area in which the disciples carried the gospel. That was their 'whole world', imo...



--But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:(Rom. 2:10 KJV)


Now, these 'every man' Paul was referring to, was it to 'every man who ever lived', or was it to 'every man that worketh good'? I'll let you guys decide for yourselves...



--For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (Rom. 12:3 KJV)


Now, was the 'God has dealt to every man the measure of faith' to every man who ever lived, or was it to 'every man that is among you'? If He has dealt the measure of faith to every man, then how can you reconcile this thought to 'for all men have not faith'? (2 Thess. 3:2b KJV)


So as you can plainly see, the words 'every man', 'whole world', 'all', &c. rarely mean 'everybody w/o exception...'

 

[Rippon]

I am just starting an extensive study on Romans and I hope to do so for the next year. I want to study it and other relating verses from other books that Paul used as he wrote that letter to the church @ Rome.


I came across a couple verses that I want to bring to light....


--First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. (Rom. 1:8 KJV)


Right here is a prime example of where the two-word phrase 'whole world' doesn't mean the 'encompassing globe', imo. Was the Roman church's faith know in the lands that would later become America, Canada, Mexico, Russia, Australia, Brazil, Columbia, American Samoa, the Fiji Islands, &c.? Of course not. The 'whole world' was that area in which the disciples carried the gospel. That was their 'whole world', imo...



--But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:(Rom. 2:10 KJV)


Now, these 'every man' Paul was referring to, was it to 'every man who ever lived', or was it to 'every man that worketh good'? I'll let you guys decide for yourselves...



--For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (Rom. 12:3 KJV)


Now, was the 'God has dealt to every man the measure of faith' to every man who ever lived, or was it to 'every man that is among you'? If He has dealt the measure of faith to every man, then how can you reconcile this thought to 'for all men have not faith'? (2 Thess. 3:2b KJV)


So as you can plainly see, the words 'every man', 'whole world', 'all', &c. rarely mean 'everybody w/o exception...'

Good post. I'm usually not into the thumbs up images.

I am so sick and tired of the mindless :"World means world." junk. People who spout this stuff show they really have no desire to study the Word of God.