37818
Well-Known Member
Yes. I do not believe the commonly believed myth that the stars where made on the fourth earth day acording to the Hebrew. I do not believe the Hebrew text teaches that myth.
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The Common English Bible
- Thread starter alexander284
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Origen
Active Member
The text has to be understood according to the normal rules of Hebrew grammar. The sign of the direct object links it to the verb.
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37818
Well-Known Member
The Jewish Publication Society translates Genesis 1:16, "God made two great lights,te greater light to domniate the day and the lesser light to dominate the night, and the stars."
Also Chabad.org on line translation, Genesis 1:16, "And God made the two great luminaries: the great luminary to rule the day and the lesser luminary to rule the night, and the stars."
Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1 (Parshah Bereishit)
Also Chabad.org on line translation, Genesis 1:16, "And God made the two great luminaries: the great luminary to rule the day and the lesser luminary to rule the night, and the stars."
Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1 (Parshah Bereishit)
Origen
Active Member
I can't change the Hebrew grammar. There is only one verb in that verse and the phrase "and the stars" has a direct object marker making it a direct object of the verb.
אֵת I †10898.55.†866.33 object–marker—אֵת, אֶת־ (אֶת [Ps 475 602 Pr 312] אֵת־ [Jb 4126 Est 931(L)]; in Bar–Kochba letters, etc. normal form is ת, for both אֵת and –אֶת־הַ, usu. prefixed to object); with sf. אוֹתִי (אֹתִי), אוֹתְךָ (אֹתְךָ, אֹתְכָה [Nm 2233] אוֹתָ֑ךְ, אֹתָ֑ךְ, אֹתָ֑כָה [Ex 2935]), אוֹתָךְ (אֹתָךְ), אוֹתוֹ (אֹתוֹ; I אתה), אוֹתָהּ (אֹתָהּ), אוֹתָ֫נוּ (אֹתָ֫נוּ), אֶתְכֶם (fem. Am 42 Zc 119 Ca 27 35 58 84, אוֹתְכֶם [Jos 2315], Q אתכמה), אוֹתָם (oft. fem., אֹתָם, אוֹתְהֶם [fem. Ezk 2345], אֶתְהֶם [fem. Ezk 3412 1 C 650], Q אותמה), אֹתָן (Ezk 1654), אוֹתָ֫נָה (Ezk 3421), אֹתָ֫נָה (Ex 3526), אוֹתְהֶן (Ezk 2347), אֶתְהֶן (Lv 2014).
1. with determined direct object. a. with definite article, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ God created the heavens and the earth Gn 11, ביום עזבו את הארץ on the day of his leaving the land 4Q386–9 412, sim. Gn 1: 4.7.16.16.16 etc.
The Dictionary of Classical Hebrew (Vol. 1, p. 439) confirms what I am saying and even cite Gen. 1:16 as an example of a determined direct object with definite article.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Now I am not understanding your arguements. I cited two Jewish translations, which explicitly, in English, present what I understand the text to say.
Origen
Active Member
Not really. The JPS uses commas instead of hyphens (see NASV).
"God made two great lights, the greater light to dominate the day and the lesser light to dominate the night, and the stars."
If again we remove the parenthetical description (i.e. the middle section) we have:
"God made two great lights and the stars."
The point is that when God made the two great lights he also made the stars. The verb עשׂה is a transitive verb. Transitive verbs take an object or objects. Hebrew has an object maker. It makes the word or phrase a direct object of the verb "made."
37818
Well-Known Member
You are not making sense. To apply the verb עשׂה to the stars being dominated then it should be equally be to then night being made on the fouth day as well, also the day being made being dominated as well. The night the stars go together.
:הַלַּ֔יְלָה וְאֵ֖ת הַכּֽוֹכָבִֽים
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Origen
Active Member
Never mind.
37818
Well-Known Member
Thank for explaining.
What could explain why it was being translated with the added "He made" before "the stars" is a Hebrew word typically not translated understood to point to the following noun the verb is to be applied. Two nouns preceded by this Hebrew word is "two,". and "stars.".
I believe the stars being a type of lights where made with the lesser light on the fourth day. Lights on the fpurth day, not the objects [Sun. Moon and stars themselves].
Origen
Active Member
You are welcome.
LOL looking around that site:
Chabad.org » Knowledge Base » Physical World » Outer Space » Stars
"VIDEO • Stars • 'Beyond the Constellations: Are we really influenced and defined based on our personal constipation?'"
Just_Ahead
Active Member
In my library I have the CEB in several editions.
I must say I like the CEB translation for several reasons.
One BIG reason is the CEB comes in a Super Giant Print padded hardback edition. As I age, I find my Bible preferences going more to the large-to-super giant print editions. These font sizes encourage me to slow down my reading speed, which also improves my reading comprehension.
I have also enjoyed reading the Genesis 1:16 posts in this thread, particularly the discussion about stars.
I am an amateur backyard astronomer. Observing the stars, constellations, planets, comets, and other objects in the night sky is a hobby I do frequently in my backyard during clear nights.
I recommend this night time hobby to anyone who can get over the anxiety about being outside in the night--away from your neighbors outside lights, street lights, and parking lot lights.
Amos 5:8.
I must say I like the CEB translation for several reasons.
One BIG reason is the CEB comes in a Super Giant Print padded hardback edition. As I age, I find my Bible preferences going more to the large-to-super giant print editions. These font sizes encourage me to slow down my reading speed, which also improves my reading comprehension.
I have also enjoyed reading the Genesis 1:16 posts in this thread, particularly the discussion about stars.
I am an amateur backyard astronomer. Observing the stars, constellations, planets, comets, and other objects in the night sky is a hobby I do frequently in my backyard during clear nights.
I recommend this night time hobby to anyone who can get over the anxiety about being outside in the night--away from your neighbors outside lights, street lights, and parking lot lights.
Amos 5:8.
John 1:9-14
In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.
The Word was with God in the beginning.
Everything came into being
through the Word,
and without the Word
nothing came into being.
What came into being
through the Word was life,
and the life was the light for all people.
The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness doesn't
extinguish the light.
A man named John was sent from God.
He came as a witness to testify concerning
the light, so that through him everyone
would believe in the light. He himself
wasn't the light, but his mission was to
testify concerning the light.
The true light that shines on all people
was coming into the world.
The light was in the world,
and the world came into being
through the light,
but the world didn't recognize the light.
The light came to his own people,
and his own people didn't welcome him.
But those who did welcome him,
those who believed in his name,
he authorized to become
God's children,
born not from blood
nor from human desire or passion,
but born from God.
The Word became flesh
and made his home among us.
We have seen his glory,
glory like that of a father's only son,
full of grace and truth.
In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.
The Word was with God in the beginning.
Everything came into being
through the Word,
and without the Word
nothing came into being.
What came into being
through the Word was life,
and the life was the light for all people.
The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness doesn't
extinguish the light.
A man named John was sent from God.
He came as a witness to testify concerning
the light, so that through him everyone
would believe in the light. He himself
wasn't the light, but his mission was to
testify concerning the light.
The true light that shines on all people
was coming into the world.
The light was in the world,
and the world came into being
through the light,
but the world didn't recognize the light.
The light came to his own people,
and his own people didn't welcome him.
But those who did welcome him,
those who believed in his name,
he authorized to become
God's children,
born not from blood
nor from human desire or passion,
but born from God.
The Word became flesh
and made his home among us.
We have seen his glory,
glory like that of a father's only son,
full of grace and truth.
alexander284
Well-Known Member
The Common English Bible (CEB) reminds me a lot of the New Living Translation (NLT).
I believe they're both fine translations (especially helpful for those who are new to the Bible).
I believe they're both fine translations (especially helpful for those who are new to the Bible).
Just_Ahead
Active Member
Philippians 2:6-11
Though he was in the form of God,
he did not consider being equal with God something to exploit.
But he emptied himself
by taking the form of a slave
and by becoming like human beings.
When he found himself in the form of a human,
he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross.
Therefore, God highly honored him
and gave him a name above all names,
so that at the name of Jesus everyone
in heaven, on earth,
and under the earth might bow
and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Though he was in the form of God,
he did not consider being equal with God something to exploit.
But he emptied himself
by taking the form of a slave
and by becoming like human beings.
When he found himself in the form of a human,
he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross.
Therefore, God highly honored him
and gave him a name above all names,
so that at the name of Jesus everyone
in heaven, on earth,
and under the earth might bow
and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
alexander284
Well-Known Member
I was fully prepared to dislike the the Common English Bible (CEB), but have actually found myself liking it. 
Hebrews 12:1,2
So then let's also run the race that is laid out in front of us, since we have such a great cloud
of witnesses surrounding us. Let's throw off any extra baggage, get rid of the sin that trips us up,
and fix our eyes on Jesus, faith's pioneer and perfecter. He endured the cross, ignoring the shame,
for the sake of the joy that was laid out in front of him, and sat down at the right side of God's throne.
So then let's also run the race that is laid out in front of us, since we have such a great cloud
of witnesses surrounding us. Let's throw off any extra baggage, get rid of the sin that trips us up,
and fix our eyes on Jesus, faith's pioneer and perfecter. He endured the cross, ignoring the shame,
for the sake of the joy that was laid out in front of him, and sat down at the right side of God's throne.