The Confusion of Arminianism

[William C]

Originally posted by Frogman:
Originally posted by Bro. Bill: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> "What if this guy is right?"

Hey, here's a method for ya, why not read the Bible and ask the same question?
</font>[/QUOTE]

Good one.

We know the bible is right:

The Bible says:
This is why they were unable to believe, because Isaiah also said: He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they would not see with their eyes or understand with their hearts, and be converted, and I would heal them.

But Calvinist say:
Mankind cannot believe because they are born that way.

The Bible says:
"O Jerusalem! Jerusalem that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, yet you were not willing!

Calvinists say:
God saves everyone he desires to save despite their unwillingness.

The Bible says:
Israel was hardened..."otherwise they might see, hear, understand and turn to God for healing."

Calvinists say:
Man is born unable to see, hear, and understand despite their hardened condition.

The Bible says:
However, many from the crowd believed in Him
[...]
He said this about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were going to receive, for the Spirit had not yet been received, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Calvinists say:
Man cannot believe without the Spirit.

The Bible says:
The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Calvinists say:
Faith doesn't come without the Spirit.

The Bible says:
God so loves the World

The Calvinists say:
God so loved the elect

The Bible says:
whosoever believes

The Calvinists say:
whosoever is elected by God to recieve the ability to believe

The Bible says:
Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord

The Calvinist says:
Everyone who is elected by God to recieve the ability to call on his name

The Bible says:
Come to me all who are weak

The Calvinist says:
Come to me all who I have selected

The Bible says:
Repent and believe so that you will be saved.

The Calvinist says:
If God chose you then you can repent and believe so that you will be saved.

The Bible says:
They resisted the Holy Spirit

The Calvinist says: (some of them)
The Holy Spirit is irresistable

The Bible teaches that our God is a just God.

The Calvinists teaches that it was God's plan to have the sin of Adam bind all mankind into a state of Total Depravity in which they are unable to respond to the commands of God so that they are condemned from birth without hope of salvation eventhough they have absolutely no ability to do that which they have been commanded to do. And they teach that God will judge man for that which they did not understand thus giving them an excuse on the day of judgement.

You're right Dallas,that was helpful. What the Bible says is right and Calvinists are wrong.

 

[Frogman]

I am beginning to understand your point of view; you believe circumcision is salvation...This is why Moses' wife said...'surely thou art a bloody husband unto me...now I get it all. Because of circumcision in the flesh, God was forced to 'harden' the unhardened Isralite.

Bro. Dallas

 

[William C]

Originally posted by Frogman:
I am beginning to understand your point of view; you believe circumcision is salvation...This is why Moses' wife said...'surely thou art a bloody husband unto me...now I get it all. Because of circumcision in the flesh, God was forced to 'harden' the unhardened Isralite.

What?!? Was this a response to my post? Please explain.

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Brother Bill:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:
I am beginning to understand your point of view; you believe circumcision is salvation...This is why Moses' wife said...'surely thou art a bloody husband unto me...now I get it all. Because of circumcision in the flesh, God was forced to 'harden' the unhardened Isralite.

What?!? Was this a response to my post? Please explain. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes. Explanation? See above.

Bro. dallas

 

[BobRyan]

Arminius did great good in restoring the initial NT focus on the God who LOVES ALL and died for ALL and calls ALL to repentance and DRAWS ALL.

And thus some of Calvins errors were directly exposed to the light of scripture.

But that does not make Arminius "God" to those who accept the Bible truths of God's Soevereign choice to establish choice EVEN in the context of the fall of Adam.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[William C]

Originally posted by Frogman:
Yes. Explanation? See above.

Dallas, I don't know how this post relates to mine. Why in the world would you think that I see circumsision as equal to salvation? Please explain you post.

 

[Frogman]

The covenant made with Abraham was confirmed in circumcision. All of Abraham's household and offspring received this, bringing them into the covenant. Thus, they were enlightened to the truth, they had access to the throne of Grace, so then, in order to cause them to reject Messiah, God was forced to harden them.

This is how I understand your posts to be speaking. You know as well as anyone that the Bible teaches without a doubt that man is depraved and that this depravity is total, yet you pretend it not to be so and that some are even endowed with a special ability over others such that God is forced to harden them in order that he can perform the rest of the promise to Abraham that through his seed all nations shall be blessed.

Bro. Dallas

 

[William C]

Originally posted by Frogman:
The covenant made with Abraham was confirmed in circumcision. All of Abraham's household and offspring received this, bringing them into the covenant. Thus, they were enlightened to the truth, they had access to the throne of Grace, so then, in order to cause them to reject Messiah, God was forced to harden them.

This is how I understand your posts to be speaking.

Not exactly.

1. God wasn't forced to do anything. He chose to what was necessary to accomplish His predetermined purpose.

2. Israel was "enlightened" to the truth in that God sent them the message of the truth through the prophets, yes.

3. The OT covenant was thought to be entered by circumsision, but we learn from Paul that Abraham was declared righteous not because of his obedience to the law but because of his faith.

4. Abraham and many others believed and I'm sure were declared righteous in the sight of God, but the majority of the Israelites rebelled against the message of the prophets causing their own hearts to become calloused (hardened). This "self-hardened" is not irreversable and its totally based upon man's choices.

5. When Christ came God had a purpose to accomplish so he hardened most of Israel so that they could not believe the message and miracles of Christ before it was time. John 12, Acts 28 and other passages show that had they not been hardened they might see, hear, understand and believe. This judicial hardening from God was not resistable but it was temporary and it was based upon God's choice.

You know as well as anyone that the Bible teaches without a doubt that man is depraved and that this depravity is total, yet you pretend it not to be so and that some are even endowed with a special ability over others such that God is forced to harden them in order that he can perform the rest of the promise to Abraham that through his seed all nations shall be blessed.

I do believe we are born with the effects of origninal sin from the fall, but I do not accept the teaching that says we are unable to respond to the words from the Spirit because of that sinful condition as Calvinists assume.

And where you get the idea that I believe "some are endowed with a special ability over others such that God is forced to harden them" I do not know? Israel doesn't have a special ability they were entrusted with the message of God and as a whole they rejected it. God hardened them not because they were better equipped than anyone else, but because:

1. They had continually rejected God (Matt. 23:37)
2. God accomplished 3 purposes through their being hardened: (a) crucifixtion of Christ, (b) ingrafting of Gentiles, (c) provoking Israel to jealousy so that some might be saved.