The connection between: Loving Jesus—Obedience—Eternal Life

[Yeshua1]

False accusation.

No one hear speaks for me and that's not what I said.

I must have misunderstood yor understand.Please clarify them?
And was NOT saying anything about your salvation, just was how you seemed to be portaying it!

 

[utilyan]

Can you prove these accusations? Can you show where believes that "God wants you to sin brilliant" and he says that it's God's fault when he sins? I'd love to see it - otherwise you are breaking the rules here.

I must have misunderstood yor understand.Please clarify them?
And was NOT saying anything about your salvation, just was how you seemed to be portaying it!

Exactly yeshua1,

We are trying to hash out our difference to the point we can say yes this is what we believe or no this is not.

But being the only non-Baptist here I'm the mouse in the cat and mouse game.


Can you show where believes that "WORKS ONLY" and he says works only?
I'd love to see it - otherwise you are breaking the rules here



And I hope Annsni understands concerning MB we are clearing up FREE WILL.

If my memory is right you guys don't have same view on free will.

I think some folks get over-heated and read in way to much bark and bite between the lines.



Saying he said its GOD's FAULT is a piece of cake to prove:

"We are justified by God's wonderful Grace"

There. The problem you think FAULT automatically = wrong doing or some mistake.

We're saying WHO is responsible for your salvation, Its either ONLY GOD, ONLY YOU, or both.

Now if GOD is only responsible for your salvation then its his fault when your not saved. It can only be his fault.

That limitation of it can only be God's fault isn't set by us as a reaction, It is automatically set intrinsically by the absolute claim only GOD is responsible.

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly yeshua1,

We are trying to hash out our difference to the point we can say yes this is what we believe or no this is not.

But being the only non-Baptist here I'm the mouse in the cat and mouse game.


Can you show where believes that "WORKS ONLY" and he says works only?
I'd love to see it - otherwise you are breaking the rules here



And I hope Annsni understands concerning MB we are clearing up FREE WILL.

If my memory is right you guys don't have same view on free will.

I think some folks get over-heated and read in way to much bark and bite between the lines.



Saying he said its GOD's FAULT is a piece of cake to prove:

"We are justified by God's wonderful Grace"

There. The problem you think FAULT automatically = wrong doing or some mistake.

We're saying WHO is responsible for your salvation, Its either ONLY GOD, ONLY YOU, or both.

Now if GOD is only responsible for your salvation then its his fault when your not saved. It can only be his fault.

That limitation of it can only be God's fault isn't set by us as a reaction, It is automatically set intrinsically by the absolute claim only GOD is responsible.

What do you think God requires us to do in order to get saved then? What is the Gospel message according to how you see it?

 

[MB]

I never said we don't sin, On the contrary your the one passing the buck on "sin nature" .

You may as well had when you said obeying the law will save you. If keeping the Law would save anyone, Christ did not have to die for our sins. We could have been saved just by keeping the Law.

You believe God wants you to sin brilliant.

Not true, I do the best I can not to sin though I do sin though I always repent afterwards when I do.

The difference between us is when I sin I say its my fault, you say its God's fault.
[/QUOTE}
I'm sure you have me mixed up with someone else. I never said it was God's fault. If I sin it is my fault However when a Calvinist sins a lot of them will say, well God made me this way because, they are deterministic in their belief. That everything that happens was predetermined by God. Scripture disagrees with them. I am not deterministic. I do not believe God forces us to do anything including being saved.
Maybe you should take your time and make sure you read people right. You have lumped me in with Calvinist. I'm a freewill baptist who object's to Calvinism.
.
You may not have said you don't sin but what you have said leads one to think this is what you believe, It makes me think that you believe your keeping the Law will save you. It will not. The only way a person is ever saved is by believing in Jesus Christ, His death, and resurrection. We are suppose to keep the Law but only because it's the Law of God. It's the least we can.do in respect of our Lord and Savior. Keeping the Law has no rewards that I know of because we who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are under Grace..

John 15

. 22“If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.

Sin nature ain't the problem, Else you have no free will.

What I mean by sin nature is, this is what man does when he is not saved He sins continuously . It means he is full of sin and needs forgiveness. I sin there is no doubt about it. Yet almost as soon as I realize I'm sinning, I'm asking for forgiveness.

God determines what is natural and what is natural is man was made in the image of God, its precisely because it is AGAINST NATURE that sin is sin. Its a deformity and corruption of your nature but its NEVER EVER your nature.

You can argue over terminology until you turn blue and it will not make any difference. It's a term put forth by Paul the apostle. It simply refers to man with out God. You are right it isn't natural to be with out God but those not saved don't know or care.

Jesus Christ has a completely human nature. 100%. There is no sin there.

Jesus Christ was God in the flesh He was fully man and fully God at the same time.

If someone tied you to your car with your foot tied to the gas without your choice and lets you lose to run over people when its all said and done, according to your logic I should hold YOU accountable and guilty for hurting anyone.

There is no way I'm to hold you accountable, its not your fault , you are innocent. You are never allowed a free choice, you are a victim.

I have no idea what your talking about. If a man is forced to do something against his will he is not responsible. But when a man falsely accuses another man he is danger of hell fire and you have falsely accused me of things here that are not true.including this..
You need to take a moment and think about who you are talking to because obviously you do not know who is who here. You seem to have several other post mixed up with mine I do not answer for other folks.
MB

 

[utilyan]

You may as well had when you said obeying the law will save you. If keeping the Law would save anyone, Christ did not have to die for our sins. We could have been saved just by keeping the Law.


Not true, I do the best I can not to sin though I do sin though I always repent afterwards when I do.

I'm not putting you on the hot seat MB, But to clearly point out GOD doesn't want us to sin.

Has God provided all means necessary for you to be able and freely not sin?

Salvation is not Disneyland. Salvation is not getting what you want or a spa or 10000 virgins.

If you STOP SINNING, you have salvation. So its a NO KIDDING you can't work out or pay for salvation, because salvation is NO SIN.

What did you think salvation was? A trophy wife, a recliner chair, newspaper and a TV?



Revelation 21
22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.



In terms of punishment and horrors, Its sin itself that's the horror. Its the accusation God can't be trusted.

God can grab you and put you in heaven, with heavenly conditions, ect ect. But if were on the level of still second guessing God, still get angry, still get afraid your still In hell rather then heaven.


John 5
13But the man who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had slipped away while there was a crowd in that place. 14Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.”

In which Baptist bill replied, Worse? heck no I'm saved! Once saved always saved! Sides its impossible for me to stop sinning!

Please imagine yourself there. Jesus has forgiven you, your clean, OBVIOUS believer. Jesus says something worse going happen if you keep sinning. Tell him once saved always saved. What do you think Christ would say to that?


Sin is the problem itself its not the penalties, sin is not a perk. The legalism of penalties is a tool but its not the root of the problem.


John 8

1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Here the sin is adultery, She was caught in the act. Law says she is to be stoned. Jesus turns the tables which is basicly romans 3 jewish law which everyone is a sinner. They all drop their stones which is funny because totally depraved folks don't do that. Jesus says no one condemned her and neither does he.

Things to note, Did she say sorry? She was caught in the act. Go over the story with a fine tooth comb, did she ask for forgiveness?

Jesus doesn't condemn her. Jesus says GO and SIN NO MORE.



Genesis 4

; 5but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. 6Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7“If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

What must Cain master? Cain is a believer, believes God, God gives him guidance they even speak to one another, Even Cain's jealously revolves around pleasing God.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Saying he said its GOD's FAULT is a piece of cake to prove:

"We are justified by God's wonderful Grace"

There. The problem you think FAULT automatically = wrong doing or some mistake.

We're saying WHO is responsible for your salvation, Its either ONLY GOD, ONLY YOU, or both.

Now if GOD is only responsible for your salvation then its his fault when your not saved. It can only be his fault.

That limitation of it can only be God's fault isn't set by us as a reaction, It is automatically set intrinsically by the absolute claim only GOD is responsible.

Do you think you've proved something by this piece of nonsense? Your theology and your reasoning are so desperately earthbound that you can't understand even the very basics of free grace although people have taken pains to explain it to you. Perhaps someone else has the patience to explain it to you again, but I haven't.

Why don't you just go away and read the Bible?

 

[utilyan]

Do you think you've proved something by this piece of nonsense? Your theology and your reasoning are so desperately earthbound that you can't understand even the very basics of free grace although people have taken pains to explain it to you. Perhaps someone else has the patience to explain it to you again, but I haven't.

Why don't you just go away and read the Bible?

Nonsense is some one pulling rule that doesn't exist out of no where and applying it to everyone. Like the rule the bible being final and only rule of authority.

^ I already know I'm dealing with ignorance.

And I can sit there and say show me where it says.......and you got NOTHING.

RETARDED THEOLOGY in the literal sense. It is RETARDANT in that it is delayed in reaching any logical justification and runs on a presumed phantom RULES and LAWs.

SHOW IT TO ME.......you got nothing because your faith is not biblical.


Lets put that to a vote?

The MAJORITY of Christians agree where I stand.

1.2 billion.

Your only what? 50 or so folks who left another faith. And then you guys can't even agree with each other.

God does not want you to sin.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If you STOP SINNING, you have salvation.

If you think you've stopped sinning you have Utilyan and the Pharisee. "I thank you that I am not like other men- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this Baptist." Now look up Luke 18:14, and tell me who went home justified: The one who sinned or the one who thought he didn't?

If you stop sinning, you have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ, because He only came to save sinners (Mark 2:17 etc.).

Lets put that to a vote?

The MAJORITY of Christians agree where I stand.

1.2 billion.
[/QUOTE]
If you think that all Roman Catholics agree with you, you are deluded. They may be wrong, but they're not that wrong.

God does not want you to sin.

Your poor pathetic god is like an ineffectual school-teacher who can't keep discipline and wrings his hands because the children won't listen to him. The real God has sin totally under control. 'If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us' (1 John 1:8-10).

 

[utilyan]

Where did I say I don't sin? LEARN TO READ, its no wonder or surprise you got the bible wrong, You can't even get the stuff people say to your FACE right.

You MAKE up stuff that's not there! with what I say, with what the bible says?

Well it can't be expected for everyone to get things right just like maybe 12% percent of folks drop out of school. its a smaller percentage to be Baptist. Its a sliver that doesn't even show up on a pie chart.

The TRUTH is God doesn't want you to sin.



Galatians 5
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


FOREWARN. Look that word up genius.

And then look up he word "YOU".



Maybe Baptist Bob shows up later in the chapter, "well looksee here Paul, you think you stopped sinning?......."

 

[JonShaff]

Where did I say I don't sin? LEARN TO READ, its no wonder or surprise you got the bible wrong, You can't even get the stuff people say to your FACE right.

You MAKE up stuff that's not there! with what I say, with what the bible says?

Well it can't be expected for everyone to get things right just like maybe 12% percent of folks drop out of school. its a smaller percentage to be Baptist. Its a sliver that doesn't even show up on a pie chart.

The TRUTH is God doesn't want you to sin.



Galatians 5
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


FOREWARN. Look that word up genius.

And then look up he word "YOU".



Maybe Baptist Bob shows up later in the chapter, "well looksee here Paul, you think you stopped sinning?......."

Why are your posts filled with so much hate?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Where did I say I don't sin? LEARN TO READ, its no wonder or surprise you got the bible wrong, You can't even get the stuff people say to your FACE right.

You MAKE up stuff that's not there! with what I say, with what the bible says?

Well it can't be expected for everyone to get things right just like maybe 12% percent of folks drop out of school. its a smaller percentage to be Baptist. Its a sliver that doesn't even show up on a pie chart.

Well you rather clearly stated on another thread not very long ago that sinless perfection was "a piece of cake." I suppose consistency is too much to hope for from you. You just make it up as you go, along with your theology. Here we are: Post #62 on the Monergism thread.

Well no one's stopping you. Of you go and love God with all your heart, all your strength and all your mind (in Mark 12, Jesus says, "with all your soul," as well, so throw that in with good measure). And love your neighbour as yourself. Constantly, without fail, perfectly (James 2:10)."

Piece of CAKE. I got a good teacher, and you can do the same with great joy.

Memory like a goldfish, and a theology to match.

The TRUTH is God doesn't want you to sin.

Well I have never stated that He does and I have not read here that anyone else has. However, 'For God has committed them all [in the context, Jews and Gentiles alike] to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all [Jews and Gentiles alike]' (Romans 11:32). God has so arranged things that no one is going to get into heaven on his or her own merits Every single person is utterly dependent on the free grace of God expressed in the once-for-all sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ upon the cross. In the light of that fact, our sinning, although it is by our own fault, cannot be outside the permissive will of God.

 

[Samuels]

So then my salvation is based on my merit - is that what you are saying?

Would you like to see all of the NT verses that say ...
-- obedience to Jesus' commands is necessary for salvation
-- only those who practice righteousness are actually righteous (saved)
-- only those who endure in their faith until the end of life will be saved
-- those who take the mark of the beast will be disqualified from salvation

And more, but maybe this is enough for now.

There are about 10 NT verses for each topic (except for Rev 13-14),
so perhaps we need a separate thread for each one?

 

[Samuels]

Does God expect you not to sin?
Hint See 1 John!

Yes, IMO, John in 1st john must mean ...

True and "faithful" believers are sincerely doing their best
to repent of their occasional sins, which results in their sins
being cleansed with Jesus' precious blood.

These believers are considered by God to be without sin!
(Because their sins are continually being washed away.)

Otherwise, what's the point of 1 John 1:7-9?

And then, of course, these believers have wisely
chosen to be slaves of obedience, which leads to righteousness,
which leads to holiness, which leads to eternal life!
They have not chosen to be slaves of sin, which leads to eternal death.
(All of this is courtesy of Paul in a few verses in Romans 6.)

 

[Samuels]

Hebrews 13:5. 'For He Himself has promised, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."'

Hey, Marty, I got as far as your first ref., which means: the Holy Spirit will remain in them
... being a Helper, leading, guiding, being an Advocate, convicting of sin, and many etc.

But, lo and behold, they are NOT robots ... they have free will to be habitual sinners, or not to be!
It's the olde story ... to be or not to be (in Romans 6).

To be a slave of obedience?
or ...
To be a slave of sin?

 

[Samuels]

Jesus was ONLY Person ever born without any sin nature, as His humanity was sinless.Not due to Him never sinning, but due to Him having perfect/slnless humanity from birth!

Yes, but Jesus (the God-man) was grievously TEMPTED to sin!
As the NT Scripture says.
But, even more and worse ... in a recent word from Him to one of His own.

 

[Yeshua1]

Where did I say I don't sin? LEARN TO READ, its no wonder or surprise you got the bible wrong, You can't even get the stuff people say to your FACE right.

You MAKE up stuff that's not there! with what I say, with what the bible says?

Well it can't be expected for everyone to get things right just like maybe 12% percent of folks drop out of school. its a smaller percentage to be Baptist. Its a sliver that doesn't even show up on a pie chart.

The TRUTH is God doesn't want you to sin.



Galatians 5
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


FOREWARN. Look that word up genius.

And then look up he word "YOU".



Maybe Baptist Bob shows up later in the chapter, "well looksee here Paul, you think you stopped sinning?......."

We here ALL agree tat Gd does not want us to sin, but does eexpct usto not sn? Will real Chruistian still sin at times or not?

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm not putting you on the hot seat MB, But to clearly point out GOD doesn't want us to sin.

Has God provided all means necessary for you to be able and freely not sin?

Salvation is not Disneyland. Salvation is not getting what you want or a spa or 10000 virgins.

If you STOP SINNING, you have salvation. So its a NO KIDDING you can't work out or pay for salvation, because salvation is NO SIN.

What did you think salvation was? A trophy wife, a recliner chair, newspaper and a TV?



Revelation 21
22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.



In terms of punishment and horrors, Its sin itself that's the horror. Its the accusation God can't be trusted.

God can grab you and put you in heaven, with heavenly conditions, ect ect. But if were on the level of still second guessing God, still get angry, still get afraid your still In hell rather then heaven.


John 5
13But the man who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had slipped away while there was a crowd in that place. 14Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.”

In which Baptist bill replied, Worse? heck no I'm saved! Once saved always saved! Sides its impossible for me to stop sinning!

Please imagine yourself there. Jesus has forgiven you, your clean, OBVIOUS believer. Jesus says something worse going happen if you keep sinning. Tell him once saved always saved. What do you think Christ would say to that?


Sin is the problem itself its not the penalties, sin is not a perk. The legalism of penalties is a tool but its not the root of the problem.


John 8

1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Here the sin is adultery, She was caught in the act. Law says she is to be stoned. Jesus turns the tables which is basicly romans 3 jewish law which everyone is a sinner. They all drop their stones which is funny because totally depraved folks don't do that. Jesus says no one condemned her and neither does he.

Things to note, Did she say sorry? She was caught in the act. Go over the story with a fine tooth comb, did she ask for forgiveness?

Jesus doesn't condemn her. Jesus says GO and SIN NO MORE.



Genesis 4

; 5but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. 6Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7“If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

What must Cain master? Cain is a believer, believes God, God gives him guidance they even speak to one another, Even Cain's jealously revolves around pleasing God.

Do we have to quit sinning in order to get saved or not?
Are we saed once stop sinnng enough to merit favor of God, or by faith in Jesu Hmself?

 

[MB]

I'm not putting you on the hot seat MB,

You're not in authority to place any one on a hot seat.

But to clearly point out GOD doesn't want us to sin.

You have clearly pointed out that you are like the pharisee's Living by the Law all the while inwardly full of hypocrisy. Not keeping the very Laws that you claim you do.

Has God provided all means necessary for you to be able and freely not sin?

Not true. He has not given us a new body. The one we all have is full of sin.

Salvation is not Disneyland. Salvation is not getting what you want or a spa or 10000 virgins.

Why don't you show us all with scripture what Salvation is.

If you STOP SINNING, you have salvation. So its a NO KIDDING you can't work out or pay for salvation, because salvation is NO SIN.

The underlined is Not true. And the last part of this is meaningless

What did you think salvation was? A trophy wife, a recliner chair, newspaper and a TV?

Salvation is being saved from our sins.

Revelation 21
22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.



In terms of punishment and horrors, Its sin itself that's the horror. Its the accusation God can't be trusted.

God can grab you and put you in heaven, with heavenly conditions, ect ect. But if were on the level of still second guessing God, still get angry, still get afraid your still In hell rather then heaven.

I'm not in hell. Of course I have no idea where you are. You make no sense to me everything written by you in this post is just babble

John 5
13But the man who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had slipped away while there was a crowd in that place. 14Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.”

In which Baptist bill replied, Worse? heck no I'm saved! Once saved always saved! Sides its impossible for me to stop sinning!

Please imagine yourself there. Jesus has forgiven you, your clean, OBVIOUS believer. Jesus says something worse going happen if you keep sinning. Tell him once saved always saved. What do you think Christ would say to that?


Sin is the problem itself its not the penalties, sin is not a perk. The legalism of penalties is a tool but its not the root of the problem.


John 8

1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Here the sin is adultery, She was caught in the act. Law says she is to be stoned. Jesus turns the tables which is basicly romans 3 jewish law which everyone is a sinner. They all drop their stones which is funny because totally depraved folks don't do that. Jesus says no one condemned her and neither does he.

Things to note, Did she say sorry? She was caught in the act. Go over the story with a fine tooth comb, did she ask for forgiveness?

Jesus doesn't condemn her. Jesus says GO and SIN NO MORE.



Genesis 4

; 5but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. 6Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7“If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

What must Cain master? Cain is a believer, believes God, God gives him guidance they even speak to one another, Even Cain's jealously revolves around pleasing God.

You have no idea what Cain is or who he is. By your own words they show you don't know anything about the Bible. Just more Babble.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, IMO, John in 1st john must mean ...

True and "faithful" believers are sincerely doing their best
to repent of their occasional sins, which results in their sins
being cleansed with Jesus' precious blood.

These believers are considered by God to be without sin!
(Because their sins are continually being washed away.)

Otherwise, what's the point of 1 John 1:7-9?

And then, of course, these believers have wisely
chosen to be slaves of obedience, which leads to righteousness,
which leads to holiness, which leads to eternal life!
They have not chosen to be slaves of sin, which leads to eternal death.
(All of this is courtesy of Paul in a few verses in Romans 6.)

John truth to us is that if we claim we have reached sinless state, we are liars, as NNE will get to sinless perfection while alive here!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, but Jesus (the God-man) was grievously TEMPTED to sin!
As the NT Scripture says.
But, even more and worse ... in a recent word from Him to one of His own.

Jesus could not ever sin, can you claim that als then?