The COPTS

[Alex Mullins]

A friend and brother, who is a born-again believer and member of our local Baptist Evengelical church, was born in Egypt and came to Canada with his parents 30 years ago .

Recently he has been promoting the virtues and the validity of the Christian Coptic Orthodox Church of Egypt as a "Christian" church, one which has been a defender of the faith since it's beginning.

It is still alive and well in the world today, apparently and touted as a "Conservative Christian" church.

When I look at some of the history of this church, which is very old, dating back to around 200 AD, I see many characteristics of the Church of Rome, Catechism, Popes, Bishops, etc.

Does anyone know if there is a connection between this church and the RC church or does it ditance itself from that church?

Comments appreciated.

Alex

 

[Melanie]

Check out www.newadvent.org which is the catholic Encyclopedia. There is a huge amount of stuff there relating to the Coptic christains whom are part of the schism with the orthodox brethren.
There may be more to it than that.....

Good hunting

I know the Copts are persecuted in Egypt as they are a minority and Christian.

 

[Dale McNamee]

Hello!

Here's a very informative link on the Coptic Church and its history: http://www.coptic.net/EncyclopediaCoptica/

In Christ,

Dale

 

[mioque]

First of all the Catholic encyclopedia at newadvent is a bit outdated, being originally published in what? 1917?

"Does anyone know if there is a connection between this church and the RC church or does it ditance itself from that church?"
There is a Koptic Catholic Rite that is part of the Catholic church (the one with JPII at the head).
However the Koptic Church proper is a seperate denomination with it's own pope (apostolic succession going back to Mark the evangelist pupil of Peter).

Not that it matters much , they truly are just as bad as Catholicism.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by mioque:
Not that it matters much , they truly are just as bad as Catholicism.

I suppose that depends on your reference point.

 

[Eric B]

All the Churches pretty much grew together, taking on the same "catholic" doctrines as time went on. Yet, they began to grow apart drawn along lines of culture. So he Copts went one way, the RCC went another way, emphasizing Latin, and the Greek churches remained sort of in the middle. Some broke off in earlier stages of doctrinal change, so you have Ancient Catholics, Anciant Orthodox, etc. Eventually, separate organizations were formed.

 

[mioque]

"I suppose that depends on your reference point."
''
Yes it does! That's exactly my point. If one sees Catholicism as innately evil, that same verdict has to extend to the Kopts.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by mioque:
"I suppose that depends on your reference point."
''
Yes it does! That's exactly my point. If one sees Catholicism as innately evil, that same verdict has to extend to the Kopts.

Of course, to the Copts, "Reformed" theology with its capricious "god" might appear to be evil as well.

 

[Melanie]

Goodness mioque, there is no need to be rude after all God knows all mens hearts.

Incidentally what is this about mortification of the elderly frail I am hearing about that supposedly occurs in the Netherlands?

 

[mioque]

"Of course, to the Copts, "Reformed" theology with its capricious "god" might appear to be evil as well. "
'''
Yes, the gap between Calvinism and Koptic theology is wider (much wider) than the gap between Calvinism and Catholicism (the last 2 share Augustine as the basis of their respective theological systems after all).

However, last I heard the Dutch Christian Reformed Church (a group theologically very close to original Calvinism) had established a close relationship with the Koptic Church.
So now Christian Reformed pastors are allowed to preach in a Koptic church and vice versa.
Mind you in practice this is a hollow gesture with no real consequences.

 

[mioque]

Briony
Sorry, no deliberate rudeness was intended on my part.

"what is this about mortification of the elderly frail I am hearing about that supposedly occurs in the Netherlands?"
''
The Dutch government being a rather secular humanist bunch decided a while back that if you are very ill and want to die there is no compelling reason for them to charge your doctor with murder if he helps you commit suicide, this includes killing you of if you are in a coma and will never come out of it.

 

[Matt Black]

The Copts are different from the RCs. RCs, together with Eastern Orthodox, all Protestants and Baptists (with the possible exception of some Mennonites) subscribe to the Definition of Chalcedon (Jesus had two natures, Divine and human)and are orthodox therefore in so far as their Christology is concerned, whatever else we may think about them. The Copts, however, are Monophysite in their Christology (Jesus was Divine only) and are therefore heretics.

Right, that's sorted, let's build a stake at which to burn them...!

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Matt,

Not quite. The Copts acknowledge both the humanity and divinity of Christ and bristle at the term "Monophysite". I've had discussions with them saying that they reject the heresy of Eutyches, and that therefore they are not Monophysite heretics. That being said, I can't understand why they can't accept the Definition of Chalcedon if they really do belief the same Christology as the "Chalcedonian" Christians. (Part of it is because they mean different things when they employ the technical terms of physis, hypostasis, etc. IIRC, the Copts believe that the person of Christ is a union of a human physis with a divine physis to form one miaphysis, and thus they really believe the same thing as we do but use different terminology to express it.)