The Corruption of the Human Spirit

[timtofly]

According to scripture the spiritual part of men is dead to God. However, it is capable of responding to the world the flesh and Satan. Which is the reason for idolatry, occultism, satanism in that order. For example, when the flesh produces art in the form of music, dancing, imaging, men often act in the directions that those things exhort. People are moved emotionally and psychologically and spiritually. So I suppose the spirit remains, within the body with a capacity to act but from God’s perspective it is as if we were carrying a dead body around, it’s as if we had a corpse inside our flesh.

Is that more accurate?

The spirit of man resides with God. The part of corruption is in the soul. If a soul gets to a certain point of corruption, then the spirit has to flee from God’s presence. Then it is a demon. At the GWT the demon, soul and eternal body are thrown eternally into the lake of fire, the second death.


When the church is complete, at the rapture, the spirit will be reunited with the incorruptible body, and the soul will take on immortality as in the restored glorified body, Adam was created with.

The soul is not a golem. The soul is the eternal you. The soul that dies, is the one that goes into the lake of fire.

The body is either flesh and blood, corruption. Or the body is of heaven, incorruption. The body is of water, earthly.

The spirit is God. God was not separated from our spirit, when Adam disobeyed. We were separated from our spirit, and it remained with God. All in Adam, were conceived, sealed by the Holy Spirit. But God did not exercise fully throughout history the act of the Holy Spirit in all. That is why some humans decided to state the doctrine of election. Whom God wills He elects. Except they refuse to acknowledge that all were sealed. They think it enslaves God to man. That is not true. Not many even know they are sealed, unless the Holy Spirit makes Himself known to them. Free will does not act as a means of knowledge. Free will acts as the mechanism of change. Free will has no power, even though many think that is what free will is. Thus spirit is of heaven and the second birth, but we do not get our spirit. We get the power of the Holy Spirit.

Our soul is still at odds with the Holy Spirit, because the flesh and blood body is carnal. When Adam sinned, death was spiritual, Paul's mortality. But the body was also changed. They knew they were naked and ashamed. This was the sin nature and the corruption of human flesh and blood.

At conception we have two things working for us. Our spirit is with God. Communication is still open. The Holy Spirit seals us, we are protected from Satan. As we grow physically and mentally, free will is in play. Satan has the ability to influence us, even with thoughts. That is why we are to captivate thoughts and reject them. Our own weak flesh goes after carnality. It is not that we are total slaves to sin. We do have to be given the knowledge of God's Word. Remember that God does not play favorites, nor does God choose to coerce us to accept God. Now God did choose certain people. Do we know how? It would not be coercion, but events that made it easier to be receptive to God.

On the flip side God does harden people's hearts to reject God. But God is not obligated to force His plan on any person. Abraham had free will to mess up. Moses had free will to mess up. David had free will to mess up. Enoch had free will to live a totally righteous life and never die. Job had free will to live righteously, even patting himself on the back. Saying that God is only concerned about a select few, turns God into a selective narcissist. The Sovereignty of God goes out of the way to bring Adam's descendants back to God, but God works through free will, not favoritism. Yes, God favors some humans over others, but not to tempt some into sin. Does free will bind God in any way? NO!!! Free will is the agent of change built into who we are as sons of God. Angels were not created with free will. Obviously 1/3rd were capable of rebellion. I am not an angel, and so I do not think like one.

 

[Sai]

That's a great clarification, Sai!

Focusing on this particular statement: "According to scripture the spiritual part of men is dead to God", can you give me that scripture reference that says "the spiritual part of men is dead to God"? I've looked for it, and I can't find it. I understand that it might be in different language, like scriptural references to the Trinity, but I'm wondering if someone may have extrapolated too far in that concept of "spiritual death".

Let me explain where my thoughts have gone on this topic.
If men are born "spiritually dead", and they aren't born again before they die, then after a man dies both "spirit" and "body" are then dead, right? So what does a dead spirit and a dead body do? Well, dead things don't do anything, unless we redefine "death" to mean something that looks like life, where a spirit can be actively interacting with persons and environment in some fashion. And once we do that, does death mean death anymore?

There is a proposed third part of man, the "soul", that could be considered still alive, even after the body and spirit are dead. Jesus talks about this in Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This tells me
1. That the soul cannot be killed by men, and
2. That the soul is not currently dead in those that will be cast into hell, else it needs no destroying in hell

But there is a reasonable amount of disagreement in theological circles about the difference between the soul and the spirit. If the spirit is not the same as the soul, what is the spirit of a man? Do human spirits go to hell? why didn't Jesus say, "Fear him who can destroy body, soul, and spirit in hell"?

If the spirit is dead, then only the soul and body need to be destroyed in hell (for unbelievers), so that makes Jesus' words comprehendable, but I don't think it fits with our idea of human spirits.

So, what is the human spirit? what does "spiritual death" really mean? Is "spiritual death" a biblical term, or is part of a Christian dialect, introduced to help explain something someone didn't understand (and still doesn't, perhaps)?

“For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace: because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:6-8‬ ‭ASV‬‬

“Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭ASV‬‬


“No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:44‬ ‭ASV‬‬

“And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭ASV‬‬


“The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭17:9‬ ‭ASV‬‬

 

[Derf B]

“For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace: because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:6-8‬ ‭ASV‬‬

Spirit in this passage is NOT a human spirit.

Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭ASV‬‬

Spirit in this passage is NOT a human spirit.

And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭ASV‬‬

Spirit in this passage is NOT a human spirit.

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭17:9‬ ‭ASV‬‬

There’s no “spirit” in this verse.

 

[Derf B]

Friend, JESUS said: no one can SEE the Kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a] Jesus said more: “Very truly I tell you, no one can ENTER the Kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. - God is Spirit -. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. John 3:v.3-6NIV

JESUS is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit -the Word- who testifies, because the Spirit -the Word- is the Truth. There are three that testify: 8 the[a] Spirit -the Word - , the water and the blood; and these three are in agreement. 1John 5:v.6-8NIV

I’m not sure what your point is.


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