The Covenant of Redemption

[Iconoclast]

This system should have never gotten off the ground because there is no 'eternal decree '

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

 

[Iconoclast]

Please explain how that predestination includes causing one to believe. God's truth in His natural revelation Psalms 19:4, Romans 10:18 is the means by which all men can believe, Romans 10:17. But men do resist God's grace, Acts of the Apostles 7:51, Hebrews 10:29.

1thess.;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

2thess;
12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing,
because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us,
ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God,

which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Please explain how that predestination includes causing one to believe. God's truth in His natural revelation Psalms 19:4, Romans 10:18 is the means by which all men can believe, Romans 10:17. But men do resist God's grace, Acts of the Apostles 7:51, Hebrews 10:29.

Not only do men resist God's grace, but they will always do so (1 Corinthians 2:14) unless God opens their hearts to believe (Acts of the Apostles 13:41; 16:14; Romans 9:16), '.....that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory' (Romans 9:23).
The means God uses is ordinarily the preaching of the word of God (Ezekiel 37:1-10; 1 Corinthians 1:18-24), though God, being sovereign, can use whatever means He will or none at all.
Natural revelation may convince men that there is a God who created the Universe, but that is a long way from being saved. Even the devils in hell know there's a God.

[Addendum: please also read @Iconoclast's post #62 above, which says it much better than mine!]

 

[Alan Gross]

Last time I posted this table (post #47) you said you'd be back to tear it up, words to that effect, and never did.
This time, we get no rebuttal.
That the passages are wonderful, I agree with you brother.

NO.2 IN THE CHART TEARS IT TO SHREDS. (sorry caps)

The body (in No.1) was not called (as is the entire definition given in No.2 and then, equated with No.1).

The soul was called by The Word of God ( *see copy of post #62, below )

and Justified (in No.2; not the 'body'), to be Glorified, all together, in One Being (No.1 & No.2), body, soul, and Spirit, Predestinated and Saved by The Instrumentality of The Word Preached to the soul, CONVICTING THEM of SIN, and Presenting Jesus' WORK of SALVATION, for The Holy Spirit to Enable Repentance and Faith, IN THE NEW BIRTH, in TIME< of THE ELECTED child of God, from Eternity Past<.

'The body', in No.1 can not be, exclusively, said to exist to be Conformed to The Image of Jesus Christ, without the soul, for the sake of honestly.

This exclusive definition of 'the body' given for No.1 is shortsighted, at best, and twisted and evil, at worst.

Also, EQUATEING 'the body' in No.1 with that which is 'called' and 'justified' in No.2 is more than shortsighted and actually just plain twisted and evil.

...


*Post #62, by iconoclast, with my re-emphasis on The Word and The Spirit's Instrumentality in the Salvation of the Predestinated, Elect.

1thess.;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

2thess;
12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing,
because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us,
ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God,

which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
...

Do the board members know of The Word and The Spirit's Instrumentality in the Salvation of the Predestinated, Elect?

 

[Reformed]

Please explain how that predestination includes causing one to believe.

Predestination itself does not cause anyone to believe. Predestination simply means that God has chosen the full number of the elect in eternity past. Belief occurs when the Holy Spirit calls an elect person in time. Reformed theologians call this the effectual call.

 

[Iconoclast]

Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by W.R. Downing

Divine predestination, as it pertains to one’s personal salvation, is a truth filled with glorious blessing, unfathomable love and great encouragement.

Predestination is the fountain of all grace, giving to free and sovereign grace its glorious nature and distinct character, as it puts salvation in the loving, purposeful, omnipotent hands of a sovereign God (Rom. 11:5–6; Eph. 1:3–11; 2:1–10).

It is the expression of God’s sovereign, eternal, immutable love to his own and is at the very foundation of the believer’s confidence, courage, zeal and assurance of salvation (Deut. 7:6–8; Rom. 8:28–39; Eph. 1:13–14; 1 Pet. 1:3–5, 18–20; 1 Jn. 4:9–10, 19).

What hope or certainty would attend salvation if left ultimately at the mutable, fallible disposal of sinful men? It is the biblical source of all boldness, encouragement and comfort in trial. All is ultimately in the hands of our loving, heavenly Father, who has ordained all things for our good. (Rom. 8:28–39; 1 Cor. 15:58; Gal. 6:7–9; Eph. 2:8–10; Phil. 1:29).

God grants sufficient grace for what he has purposed.
Predestination, rightly understood, is a proper biblical incentive to holiness and responsible action. No effort is futile, no witness goes unnoticed or unblessed and no faithful service goes unrewarded (1 Cor. 15:58; Eph. 1:4; 2:8–10; Phil. 1:29; 2:12–13; 2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Pet. 1:1–2; 1 Jn. 2:28–3:3).

Whatever happens to believers in this life is in the context of God’s glorious and loving purpose⎯to conform us to the image of his Son (Rom. 8:28–31; Eph. 2:8–10; Phil. 2:12–16; 2 Cor. 3:17–18). Whatever we think, do or say either brings us closer to this goal or necessarily puts us in the way of Divine correction, chastening and discipline (Heb. 12:4–8).

How much time has been lost, energy expended, and trials endured needlessly simply because some have ignorantly thought that salvation was conversion⎯simply an event, an experience, the work of a moment⎯or that God would overlook sin in the lives of his own or that the Christian life was one of options.

The truth of God’s purpose should govern our thinking, transform our lives, sanctify our motives, mitigate our suffering, determine every human relationship, and quicken our feeble efforts to live obediently and faithfully as Christians⎯as those who are infallibly being conformed to the image of Christ.


Does your religious experience manifest God’s loving purpose of grace

 

[Iconoclast]

Predestination itself does not cause anyone to believe. Predestination simply means that God has chosen the full number of the elect in eternity past. Belief occurs when the Holy Spirit calls an elect person in time. Reformed theologians call this the effectual call.

Thanks for that helpful clarification Reformed.
Some want to combine and mix the terms God has used in scripture, and the order that God has given for those descriptive terms to be used.
It adds confusion to a topic that needs focused attention to begin to sort it out.

 

[Iconoclast]

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

NEW TESTAMENT QUOTATIONS OF PSALM 2
Sixty percent of Psalm 2 has been quoted by the New Testament, either directly or indirectly. The thought of Psalm 2 is the same as that of the New Testament; thus, in a sense, you may find every part of Psalm 2 there. If you put all the New Testament parts together, you will have another Psalm 2. Let us look briefly at some of these verses in the New Testament that we may be more deeply impressed.

We have seen that the first section of Psalm 2, verses 1 to 3, is the opposition of world rulers against Christ. It began to be fulfilled at the time Christ was betrayed and brought to the judgment of Pilate. This is recorded in Acts 4:25-28: “Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.” This fulfillment will continue to the time of Revelation 19:19. “And I saw the beast (this beast is the coming antichrist), and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.” Christ was the One sitting on the horse, and the antichrist, the kings and all the armies were making war against Him. This will be the final attempt of world rulers to oppose Christ, Praise the Lord! The fulfillment of the first section of Psalm 2 began with Pontius Pilate and will be ended with the beast, the antichrist.

In the second section of Psalm 2, God declared that He has anointed Christ as His king on Zion, the hill of His holiness. Here we must read Acts 2:36, “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.” This is God’s declaration. Now, Revelation 19:16, 20, and 21: “And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KlNGS, AND LORD OF LORDS…And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.” Then Revelation 20:4, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” This declaration of God in the second section of Psalm 2 lasts so long—from the time Jesus was resurrected and ascended God made this declaration; it is still continuing and prevailing, and it will do so till the thousand years of the kingdom will come. On the other hand, along with His declaration, God has accomplished and will accomplish much destruction upon the enemy: He has destroyed the Roman Empire and many other worldly powers trying to oppose Christ.

The third section of Psalm 2 is Christ’s declaration. Let us read Acts 13:33, “God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.” “This day” is the day of resurrection. This same verse is quoted in Hebrews 1:5. In Psalm 2 Christ declared that God the Father will give Him all the nations as His inheritance. That word is fulfilled in Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” Psalm 2:9 concerning Christ’s rule is fulfilled in Revelation 2:26 and 27: “He that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.” And again in Revelation 19:15, “Out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron.”

Revelation 6:15-17 is the fulfillment of the last section of Psalm 2, the gospel preaching, admonishing people to return to Christ, to put their trust in Christ and to kiss Christ, for His wrath will be kindled. “The kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” This is not a direct quotation from Psalm 2, but the thought, the concept, is adopted from Psalm 2. One day Christ will be angered; the wrath of the Lamb will be exercised. The kings must be wise and put their trust in Him.

If you would properly understand Psalm 8, you must keep Psalm 2 within you. Psalm 2 tells us that Christ is the center of God’s economy, the center of God’s administration. God declared to the whole earth, “Yet have I anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness.” Do not care for many things; only care for this: God has declared that He has anointed, installed, and established Christ as the King. I do not think there could be any word more clear than Psalm 2. It is so brief, yet so strong. There is God’s declaration, then Christ’s declaration, and then the gospel preaching.

(Christ and the Church Revealed and Typified in the Psalms, Chapter 2, by Witness Lee)

 

[Dave G]

Nothing in those verses speaks of predestination unto salvation.

George,

I agree that Scripture is defined by cross reference.
But it is also defined by context.

There is no such verse that says a man has been predestinated [specifically] to trust in Christ.

I agree.

There is nothing in the text, either in Romans 8 or Ephesians 1, about predestination that refers specifically to salvation.
For example:

In Romans 8:29-30, the context of being predestinated is with respect to God conforming the believer to the image of Christ.
Yet, the passage very clearly links being foreknown, with being predestinated.
Predestinated with being "called".
Being "called" with being justified...
And being justified with being glorified.

Once again, one cannot have one without all the others having happened.
Therefore, if anyone is justified by God ( Romans 8:33 ), by the blood of Christ ( Romans 5:8 ) and by their faith ( Romans 5:1 ), then they were foreknown, predestinated, called and glorified.

Those that are justified by the blood of Christ are saved.
Anyone who is not, is not saved, according to God's word.
Anyone who is not foreknown, will never be justified by the blood of His Son.

That right there makes salvation not available to all men, from God's perspective.
However, from man's perspective, anyone can potentially be one of the "whosoever believeth", God's elect, whose faith endures to the end.

 

[Dave G]

@George Antonios

Similarly,
In Ephesians 1:4-5, Paul is not only telling the saints which are at Ephesus that they were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, he is addressing the letter to anyone who is saved that is reading it..."the faithful in Christ Jesus" from Ephesians 1:1.

Predestination is with respect to the adoption of children...
God's children ( see Ephesians 5:1 for a cross referenced-definition ).

In Ephesians 1:11, that predestination ( to the adoption of children from verse 5 ) is said to be according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His will.
Why?
Answered in the text:

So that believers would be to the praise of His glory.
It's all right there, and it all depends upon the context and what is declared.

Therefore, to be predestinated to the adoption of children is to be predestinated to being a child of God.

Being predestinated to being a child of God is to be chosen to salvation ( cross referenced with 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).
Being chosen to salvation is being foreknown ( Jeremiah 1:5, Psalms 139 );
Being given to Christ by the Father ( John 6:37, John 6:65, John 17:2 ) is being saved, because according to John 17:2, Christ will only give eternal life to as many as the Father has given Him.

See Romans 9:22-24 for a Scriptural cross-reference...
"Vessels of wrath" and "vessels of mercy".
The Father determines who the "vessels" are that he gives to the Son.

God is the Potter, we are the clay.
He makes "vessels" ( see 1 Peter 3:7 for a Scriptural cross-reference defining what a "vessel" is ) of wrath and "vessels" of mercy.
One is fitted to destruction by their own works, the other is afore prepared unto His glory, all according to the purposes of His will.

God made a people for Himself ( Isaiah 43:21 ), and takes them out of the nations ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ) as a people for His namesake, redeeming them by the precious blood of His Son and to show that he is merciful and kind to us as sinners...

Not just holy, offended at our sin and willing to show wrath and to make His power known.
Rather than casting us all into Hell where His justice demands, He has decided to save some of us.




That is the "covenant of redemption".

 

[Yeshua1]

@George Antonios

Similarly, in Ephesians 1:4-5, Paul is not only telling the saints which are at Ephesus that they were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, he is addressing the letter to anyone who is saved that is reading it..."the faithful in Christ Jesus" from Ephesians 1:1.

Predestination is with respect to the adoption of children...
God's children ( see Ephesians 5:1 for a cross referenced-definition ).

In Ephesians 1:11, that predestination ( to that adoption ) is said to be according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His will.
Why?
So that believers would be to the praise of His glory.

It's all right there, and all depends upon the context.

Biblical predestination seems to refer to the status of the Elect in Christ only!

 

[Dave G]

Please explain how that predestination includes causing one to believe.

God's choosing to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13, linked with being predestinated to the adoption of children ), is, in the ultimate sense, the cause of someone believing.

The work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration, or being born again, is what changes the person's "want to" ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 )...
From being against God and rejecting His words, we as believers are given "ears to hear", and we "hear" ( or embrace ) His words.
From that point, faith comes by "hearing" and "hearing" by the word of God ( Romans 10:17 ).

In James 1:18, we see that He does the "begetting", by His word;
We don't do the begetting, or making a person born again.
In Titus 3:5-6, we see that it was according to His mercy that He saved us, not according to our belief of Christ or any other work of righteousness.

Only those given to Christ by the Father, will come to Him ( John 6:37-44, John 6:64-65 ).



So, while the Lord does not do the believing for us, He is the direct cause ( see Psalms 65:4 ) of a person approaching Him, from the heart.

 

[Barry Johnson]

George,

I agree that Scripture is defined by cross reference.
But it is also defined by context.

I agree.

There is nothing in the text, either in Romans 8 or Ephesians 1, about predestination that refers specifically to salvation.
For example:

In Romans 8:29-30, the context of being predestinated is with respect to God conforming the believer to the image of Christ.
Yet, the passage very clearly links being foreknown, with being predestinated.
Predestinated with being "called".
Being "called" with being justified...
And being justified with being glorified.

Once again, one cannot have one without all the others having happened.
Therefore, if anyone is justified by God ( Romans 8:33 ), by the blood of Christ ( Romans 5:8 ) and by their faith ( Romans 5:1 ), then they were foreknown, predestinated, called and glorified.

Those that are justified by the blood of Christ are saved.
Anyone who is not, is not saved, according to God's word.
Anyone who is not foreknown, will never be justified by the blood of His Son.

That right there makes salvation not available to all men, from God's perspective.
However, from man's perspective, anyone can potentially be one of the "whosoever believeth", God's elect, whose faith endures to the end.

“Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)

 

[Barry Johnson]

Was reading this today and thought it might help some;

The Covenant of Redemption and Grace refers to the eternal, redemptive purpose of the triune God to save sinners. The unconditional nature of this covenant is revealed in the following terms, which stretch from eternity past to eternity future:


election (Acts 13:48; Eph. 1:3–4; 1 Thess. 1:3–5; 2 Thess. 2:13).

Predestination (Rom. 8:29–39; Eph. 1:5, 11).

Redemption (Matt. 1:21; Mk. 10:45; Rom. 3:24–25; 1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:14–17; Eph. 1:6–7; Heb. 9:12),

Effectual Calling (Jn. 6:37, 44; Acts 18:27; Rom. 8:28; 1 Cor. 1:24),

Regeneration (Ezk. 11:19–20; 36:25–27; Jn. 3:3; Rom. 8:7–8; 2 Cor. 4:3–4; Eph. 2:4–5, 22–24; Col. 3:9–10),

Conversion (Eph. 2:8–10),

Adoption (Rom. 8:17–23; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5),

Justification (Rom. 3:21–28; 4:1–5; 5:1–2),

Sanctification (Rom. 5:12–6:23; 8:1–16; Gal. 5:16–17, 22–23; Heb. 12:14)

and glorification (Rom. 8:17–23, 29–39; 1 Jn. 3:1–4).

This covenant is unconditional because it rests in the eternal decree of God and does not depend upon man’s ability or faithfulness for its initiation, maintenance or conclusion.


It is termed the Covenant of Redemption because it is redemptive in nature.
It is termed the Covenant of Grace because in this covenant man is considered as a sinner and must be saved by grace alone. Should any human ability enter into this covenant, it would necessarily become a covenant of works (Rom. 11:5–6).

The Covenant of Grace refers to the eternal redemptive purpose of the triune God to save sinners.


In order to redeem sinners, God the Son became incarnate, not merely as Savior and Redeemer, but also necessarily and pointedly as Representative Man.

The Covenant of Grace was especially made with the Lord Jesus Christ—the “Second Man” (in contrast to the “First Man,” Adam) and the “Last Adam” (in contrast to the “First Adam”) (Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 15:21–22, 45–47).
By our Lord’s active obedience [his perfect life lived in conformity to the Law and its fulfillment] and passive obedience [his vicarious suffering and death, which paid the Law’s penalty, removed its curse, and answers to the righteousness of God, Rom. 1:16–17; 3:24–26; 2 Cor. 5:21; Gal. 3:13],

those whom he represents are delivered from the curse of the law (Gal. 4:4–5; 3:13),
justified and reconciled to God (Acts 13:38–39; Rom. 5:1–11; Heb. 9:12),

predestined to be conformed to the image of God’s Son (Rom. 8:29; Eph. 1:5),

and infallibly, fully and finally redeemed (Rom. 8:23, 29–39).

Are you included in this covenant?
From A Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by W.R. Downing

Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

3. Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

4. Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

5. Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

6. There are 2 callings: Gospel and vocational, not inward or outward or effectual or ineffectual, etc… (2 Thess. 2:14; Eph. 4:1; Rom. 8:28; 2 Cor. 5:20)

7. Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)

8. Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

9. Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

10. When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.

11. Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

12. Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

13. The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

14. The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)

15. What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)

16. Belief that salvation for anyone was secured on the cross constitutes a denial of the necessity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:17)

17. Salvation is eternally secured by the sealing of the spirit, not “election.” (Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor. 1:22)

18. There is no sealing of the spirit before Pentecost or after the harpazo of the church. (Eph. 4:30; John 14:17; Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-29)

19. There are two aspects to salvation: presence/effects of sin and lack of glorification. Nothing that eradicates sin glorifies the sinner. Both aspects must be resolved for salvation to occur. (Rom. 3:23; 5:8; 8:17-30)

20. Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)

21. Grace is a ubiquitous reality, not a selective force. (Tit. 2:11-13)

22. Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,” “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)

23. ”Die(d) to save” is not a Bible phrase or concept. It is therefore senseless to pit it against “died to make men savable” since the premise is false to start with. This false dichotomy indicates confusion about what saves.

24. Sinners are born of God by the will of God after they receive Christ. (Jn. 1:12-13)

25. Monergism/Synergism is a false dichotomy invented in the 1890s. Calvinists are synergists based on their own definitions of these terms.

26. God is pleased to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)

27. Free gift unto justification of life to all men must be received. It’s not “universalism” unless irresistible grace supplants the biblical requirement to receive. (Rom. 5:11-18; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

28. “Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)

29. Nobody was “in Christ” before the foundation of the world. Nobody was “in Christ” before they were placed in Christ during their lifetime. (Eph. 1:4; 2:12; Rom. 12:5; 6:3: 16:7; 1 Cor. 12:13, 27)

30. Free will or lack thereof (or lack of a type of it, such as libertarian) is not a proper interpretive pre-consideration. Scriptural authority is the one and only concern, irrespective of the implications to man’s will. (Pro. 30:5)

31. Unbelief condemns a person, not because it is an unforgiven sin, but because it is the exclusive point of access to the grace. (Rom. 5:2)

32. Arminianism is a branch of Calvinistic thinking, and it is wrong for all the same reasons that Calvinism is wrong.

33. Israel is who’s being hardened in Romans 9. The recipients of mercy are identified in Romans 11:32.

34. The Holy Spirit is the only member of the trinity who doesn’t draw in the New Testament. (Jn. 6:44; 12:32)

35. God’s sovereignty in salvation means that he executes it in accordance with Scripture and not in accordance with Hindu Fatalism.

 

[37818]

God's choosing to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13, linked with being predestinated to the adoption of children ), is, in the ultimate sense, the cause of someone believing.

Saying that does not show that is the case.

. . . faith comes by "hearing" and "hearing" by the word of God ( Romans 10:17 ).

That context Romanss 10:17-18 speaks of faith God gives all men through His truth in His natural revelation, Psalms 19:4 [John 17:17]. So yes correct faith is believing truth. But some reject the sanctification of the Spirit, Acts of the Aposlles 7:51, Hebrews 10:29.

 

[Iconoclast]

Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

3. Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

4. Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

5. Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)

6. There are 2 callings: Gospel and vocational, not inward or outward or effectual or ineffectual, etc… (2 Thess. 2:14; Eph. 4:1; Rom. 8:28; 2 Cor. 5:20)

7. Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)

8. Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

9. Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

10. When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.

11. Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

12. Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

13. The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

14. The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)

15. What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)

16. Belief that salvation for anyone was secured on the cross constitutes a denial of the necessity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:17)

17. Salvation is eternally secured by the sealing of the spirit, not “election.” (Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor. 1:22)

18. There is no sealing of the spirit before Pentecost or after the harpazo of the church. (Eph. 4:30; John 14:17; Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-29)

19. There are two aspects to salvation: presence/effects of sin and lack of glorification. Nothing that eradicates sin glorifies the sinner. Both aspects must be resolved for salvation to occur. (Rom. 3:23; 5:8; 8:17-30)

20. Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)

21. Grace is a ubiquitous reality, not a selective force. (Tit. 2:11-13)

22. Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,” “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)

23. ”Die(d) to save” is not a Bible phrase or concept. It is therefore senseless to pit it against “died to make men savable” since the premise is false to start with. This false dichotomy indicates confusion about what saves.

24. Sinners are born of God by the will of God after they receive Christ. (Jn. 1:12-13)

25. Monergism/Synergism is a false dichotomy invented in the 1890s. Calvinists are synergists based on their own definitions of these terms.

26. God is pleased to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)

27. Free gift unto justification of life to all men must be received. It’s not “universalism” unless irresistible grace supplants the biblical requirement to receive. (Rom. 5:11-18; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

28. “Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)

29. Nobody was “in Christ” before the foundation of the world. Nobody was “in Christ” before they were placed in Christ during their lifetime. (Eph. 1:4; 2:12; Rom. 12:5; 6:3: 16:7; 1 Cor. 12:13, 27)

30. Free will or lack thereof (or lack of a type of it, such as libertarian) is not a proper interpretive pre-consideration. Scriptural authority is the one and only concern, irrespective of the implications to man’s will. (Pro. 30:5)

31. Unbelief condemns a person, not because it is an unforgiven sin, but because it is the exclusive point of access to the grace. (Rom. 5:2)

32. Arminianism is a branch of Calvinistic thinking, and it is wrong for all the same reasons that Calvinism is wrong.

33. Israel is who’s being hardened in Romans 9. The recipients of mercy are identified in Romans 11:32.

34. The Holy Spirit is the only member of the trinity who doesn’t draw in the New Testament. (Jn. 6:44; 12:32)

35. God’s sovereignty in salvation means that he executes it in accordance with Scripture and not in accordance with Hindu Fatalism.

Sorry that you deny the truth of the word of God in the way you were doing but I understand what you're trying to do and eventually maybe you will receive help on these things.

 

[George Antonios]

Sorry that you deny the truth of the word of God in the way you were doing but I understand what you're trying to do and eventually maybe you will receive help on these things.

How can he be denying the truth of the word of God when the things presented glorify the Lord?

 

[Iconoclast]

How can he be denying the truth of the word of God when the things presented glorify the Lord?

Hello George, I can't fully answer right now is I'm working but as time permits I will show why I suggest it doesn't work by God but it's actually packed on the truth of God and I don't think he intended to be but nevertheless what he's posted undermines the truth of scripture and I will seek to show it this time for this cannot do it right now

 

[Dave G]

That context Romanss 10:17-18 speaks of faith God gives all men through His truth in His natural revelation,

I'm sorry, but I disagree sir.
To me, it clearly says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God...

" So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. " ( Romans 10:17-21 ).

Have people heard?
Yes.
Did they believe?

Not all of them...
This passage tells us that Israel, as a whole, did not.
Why?
Other passages in this very letter tell us why some believe and why others do not.

But ultimately,
People believe the word of God.

This is what leads them to believe on Christ for their need of a Saviour...
The word of God, which is the word of faith;

" But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;" ( Romans 10:8 ).

" For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." ( 1 Thessalonians 2:13 ).

Natural revelation isn't enough for someone to seek the Lord, it is God who accomplishes that new birth by His power ( Titus 3:5-7 ) and by His word ( James 1:18 ).
Another way to state it is this:

" For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." ( 1 Corinthians 1:21 )

 

[Dave G]

So yes correct faith is believing truth. But some reject the sanctification of the Spirit, Acts of the Aposlles 7:51, Hebrews 10:29.

Why does one believe, and another not?
Does the Bible answer those questions directly?
I believe so.

We don't have to fill in the blanks, but we can know why...
Once again, we come to:

John 6:64-65.
John 17:2.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48.
Romans 8:28-30.