The creation: origins

[Charlie24]

@SovereignGrace

Ok, here it is, but remember these are not facts, they are the foundation of the Gap Theory.

We can all breathe easy knowing it's only a theory.

In Gen. 1:1 it is believed that God created the earth and heaven, the heaven with the stars, sun, ect. millions of years ago and somewhere during that time Satan and the angels that followed him rebelled against God and there was a war in heaven.

The reason Gen. 1:2 says the earth was void and without form. It's believed that Gen. 1:3 is not the beginning of the original creation, that taking place in Gen. 1:1, But Gen. 1:3 is the beginning of a recreation of damage from the war.

In Gen. 1:1 it say God created, but in vs 7 it says God made. Let me show you the difference in "created" and "made."

Created is (Bara) it refers to something coming into existence from nothing, as God speaking the creation into existence from nothing.

Made is (Asah) it refers to something being fashioned or fabricated from and existing material.

In Gen. 1:1 God created everything from nothing, In Gen. 1:7 He is making a firmament from existing materials, like in the leftovers from from the war at Satan's rebellion.

Again in vs. 16 God is making 2 great lights from existing material, not a creation as in Gen. 1:1 where He created from nothing.

Next we come to life, the living creatures on this earth. In vs 21 God is now creating again, great whales and all the creatures in the waters (the seas).

If the Gap Theory is correct, when the war with Satan and his angels was over, all life on earth is believed to have been killed according to the condition described in Gen. 1:2. So the great whales and the creatures of sea we gone and God had to create them again.

Remember that the whales and sea life were created by being spoken into existence, they are now gone and must created again.

Now we come to the beasts of the earth, all the animals in vs24, God made this time from the dust of the earth (Asah/existing materials) as with man, Gen. 2:19.

Now we come to man, here we have man both "made" Gen. 1:26 and "created" Gen. 1:27. So God made man from the dust of the earth (exsisting materials) but man was also the only creature made in the image of God and created that way.

So this is the foundation of the Gap Theory with a gap between the original creation in Gen. 1:1 and the recreation that begins in Gen. 1:3.

So I'll stop here and continue later. Remember I told you last night of another recap of the creation? I will explain that when I can get back with it later today.

@Ben1445

Look at the above post, the bold.

In Gen. 1:1 God created/spoke the universe into existence from nothing.

But in the verses I placed in bold He made from existing materials.

Why is God not creating/speaking into existence in those bold verses, instead of making those things with existing material?

 

[Charlie24]

@Ben1445

Look at the above post, the bold.

In Gen. 1:1 God created/spoke the universe into existence from nothing.

But in the verses I placed in bold He made from existing materials.

Why is God not creating/speaking into existence in those bold verses, instead of making those things with existing material?

In those bold verse God is not speaking into existence the sun and the moon, the 2 great lights, it's not the original creation.

He is remaking them from what's left and it is a recreation.

 

[Ben1445]

@Ben1445

Look at the above post, the bold.

In Gen. 1:1 God created/spoke the universe into existence from nothing.

But in the verses I placed in bold He made from existing materials.

Why is God not creating/speaking into existence in those bold verses, instead of making those things with existing material?

Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Seven literal days. The seventh day, God rested from six days of creating from nothing and forming from what He created.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
From nothing, matter, the stuff the body is made of.

Genesis 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

From nothing, physical life. Living breathing procreating life.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

From nothing, spiritual life. Moral, emotional, spiritual life.

Man is a body, soul, and spirit when whole. God created each of these things from nothing in six days as described by Genesis 2:3.

 

[Ben1445]

In those bold verse God is not speaking into existence the sun and the moon, the 2 great lights, it's not the original creation.

He is remaking them from what's left and it is a recreation.

It’s the part about “what’s left” that I find no authentic record of.
Where do I read about this?
Who told who that all this happened?
This is a credible as the gospel of Thomas is. There are no sources. Just passed on folk tales.
Point me to the original account. Provide me Scripture especially, where it discusses these events, not just where there is calendar time to wedge them into the narrative, but where the events are actually mentioned.

 

[Charlie24]

Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Seven literal days. The seventh day, God rested from six days of creating from nothing and forming from what He created.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
From nothing, matter, the stuff the body is made of.

Genesis 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

From nothing, physical life. Living breathing procreating life.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female

Trust me, Ben, Gen. 1 is a recreation.

Reread post #26 carefully, the 2 great lights are the sun and the moon.

I should have pointed that out but didn't.

It’s the part about “what’s left” that I find no authentic record of.
Where do I read about this?
Who told who that all this happened?
This is a credible as the gospel of Thomas is. There are no sources. Just passed on folk tales.
Point me to the original account. Provide me Scripture especially, where it discusses these events, not just where there is calendar time to wedge them into the narrative, but where the events are actually mentioned.

Reread the post

 

[Ben1445]

Trust me, Ben, Gen. 1 is a recreation.

Trust me is not evidence of Satans dominion over a destroyed earth.

Reread post #26 carefully, the 2 great lights are the sun and the moon.

I completely understand that matter that was created in 1:1 was used to form the heavenly bodies.
That doesn’t point to the dominance of Satan on a past civilization.

I should have pointed that out but didn't.

Reread the post

I don’t read any of this out of Genesis or any other Book for that matter.
Where do you find it without hearing it from someone else that says trust me?

 

[Charlie24]

Trust me is not evidence of Satans dominion over a destroyed earth.


I completely understand that matter that was created in 1:1 was used to form the heavenly bodies.
That doesn’t point to the dominance of Satan on a past civilization.


I don’t read any of this out of Genesis or any other Book for that matter.
Where do you find it without hearing it from someone else that says trust me?

Ok, everyone can't see it clearly from the start, it takes a little time to sink in.

If there is anything in post #26 you need defined let me know.

 

[SovereignGrace]

@SovereignGrace

Ok, here it is, but remember these are not facts, they are the foundation of the Gap Theory.

We can all breathe easy knowing it's only a theory.

In Gen. 1:1 it is believed that God created the earth and heaven, the heaven with the stars, sun, ect. millions of years ago and somewhere during that time Satan and the angels that followed him rebelled against God and there was a war in heaven.

The reason Gen. 1:2 says the earth was void and without form. It's believed that Gen. 1:3 is not the beginning of the original creation, that taking place in Gen. 1:1, But Gen. 1:3 is the beginning of a recreation of damage from the war.

In Gen. 1:1 it say God created, but in vs 7 it says God made. Let me show you the difference in "created" and "made."

Created is (Bara) it refers to something coming into existence from nothing, as God speaking the creation into existence from nothing.

Made is (Asah) it refers to something being fashioned or fabricated from and existing material.

In Gen. 1:1 God created everything from nothing, In Gen. 1:7 He is making a firmament from existing materials, like in the leftovers from from the war at Satan's rebellion.

Again in vs. 16 God is making 2 great lights from existing material, not a creation as in Gen. 1:1 where He created from nothing.

Next we come to life, the living creatures on this earth. In vs 21 God is now creating again, great whales and all the creatures in the waters (the seas).

If the Gap Theory is correct, when the war with Satan and his angels was over, all life on earth is believed to have been killed according to the condition described in Gen. 1:2. So the great whales and the creatures of sea we gone and God had to create them again.

Remember that the whales and sea life were created by being spoken into existence, they are now gone and must created again.

Now we come to the beasts of the earth, all the animals in vs24, God made this time from the dust of the earth (Asah/existing materials) as with man, Gen. 2:19.

Now we come to man, here we have man both "made" Gen. 1:26 and "created" Gen. 1:27. So God made man from the dust of the earth (exsisting materials) but man was also the only creature made in the image of God and created that way.

So this is the foundation of the Gap Theory with a gap between the original creation in Gen. 1:1 and the recreation that begins in Gen. 1:3.

So I'll stop here and continue later. Remember I told you last night of another recap of the creation? I will explain that when I can get back with it later today.

There's too much speculation in all of the gap theory. I think you are making more of "created" and "made" than is there. God created everything we see, and do not see, from absolutely nothing, the Latin phrase ex nihilo. It was from creation He made everything. That is why those two words are used as they are. God created everything, and made from that which He created. He did not start over after vs 1:2, but that is a continuation of Him creating and making all He did.

There is nothing cited in Genesis 1:2 to take such an illogical leap my friend. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.[Genesis 1:1-2] There is nothing stated implicitly or explicitly that can be deduced as you are saying there is. It. Just. Is. Not. There.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ok, everyone can't see it clearly from the start, it takes a little time to sink in.

If there is anything in post #26 you need defined let me know.

There is no death prior to Adam, as that is clearly attested to in the scriptures.

 

[Ben1445]

Ok, everyone can't see it clearly from the start, it takes a little time to sink in.

If there is anything in post #26 you need defined let me know.

I’m not coming at it from the start. I’m not expert familiar but none of this is new to me.
I can see all the “spaces” that gap theorist fill.
Without authoritative evidence, it rings of “once upon a time, a long time ago.” You can’t tell me the little red riding hood is not a true story, there’s room for it to have happened between verses one and two.
My purpose in comparison is not ridicule. It is that no authoritative evidence of this even directs one to think this way.
Where in the Bible does this idea come from? I’ve heard it from out of the Bible and squeezed into it. In my opinion Joseph Smith at least had the golden tablets to back him up. But nobody ever gives me a record or evidence of this event. It’s just a made up story. The details are outlandish. It’s like Satan himself described everything that was in the world when he was in charge. That is a source that is not trustworthy. God hasn’t revealed these things. I’m left to believe that the other side is the side revealing things.

 

[Marooncat79]

I lean toward the Gap Theory. Something happened between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, I believe.

When God created the heaven and the earth in 1:1, something caused it to become "without form, and void and darkness.

I believe in 1:1 everything was created and what we are reading in the creation is a recreation.

But there are some good points in other theories, and I've never given it much attention.

Why do you believe that?

 

[Charlie24]

There's too much speculation in all of the gap theory. I think you are making more of "created" and "made" than is there. God created everything we see, and do not see, from absolutely nothing, the Latin phrase ex nihilo. It was from creation He made everything. That is why those two words are used as they are. God created everything, and made from that which He created. He did not start over after vs 1:2, but that is a continuation of Him creating and making all He did.

There is nothing cited in Genesis 1:2 to take such an illogical leap my friend. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.[Genesis 1:1-2] There is nothing stated implicitly or explicitly that can be deduced as you are saying there is. It. Just. Is. Not. There.

That's why it's a theory some will see something in it some won't.

When you take in consideration that Moses used 2 different words selectively that mean the opposite in what God spoke into existence and what He refabricated, one begins to wonder is this a recreation, and how long ago was the original creation.

Then add to that that God told Adam and Eve to go replenish the earth in Gen. 1:28. If Adam and Eve were the very first humans on earth why would he tell them to replenish?

The Gap Theory leads us to believe that the human remains found by scientists they claim to be 100's of thousands of years could be true.

 

[Charlie24]

That's why it's a theory some will see something in it some won't.

When you take in consideration that Moses used 2 different words selectively that mean the opposite in what God spoke into existence and what He refabricated, one begins to wonder is this a recreation, and how long ago was the original creation.

Then add to that that God told Adam and Eve to go replenish the earth in Gen. 1:28. If Adam and Eve were the very first humans on earth why would he tell them to replenish?

The Gap Theory leads us to believe that the human remains found by scientists they claim to be 100's of thousands of years could be true.

I'm not telling you to believe the Gap Theory, I'm telling to understand it and then dismiss it if you like.

 

[Charlie24]

I'm not telling you to believe the Gap Theory, I'm telling to understand it and then dismiss it if you like.

This is how science and the Bible are working together. Every time something is found and dates back beyond the 6000 years of the supposed original creation, the Gap Theory is looking more and more to be true.

 

[Charlie24]

Why do you believe that?

I can't say that I believe it as a fact, but I certainly can't dismiss it altogher and be realistic.

Take a look at my recent posts.

 

[Marooncat79]

The gap theory is unnecessary, destroys the meaning of the words “day” in Genesis and the significance of the Sabbath

 

[Charlie24]

The gap theory is unnecessary, destroys the meaning of the words “day” in Genesis and the significance of the Sabbath

I don't how you come to that conclusion, but ok, that's your opinion and you should dismiss the possibility of the Gap Theory.

 

[Charlie24]

I don't how you come to that conclusion, but ok, that's your opinion and you should dismiss the possibility of the Gap Theory.

You have to bear in mind that the possibility of the original creation sometime in the dateless past is based on the earth being given to Satan, then Lucifer, as his possession.

I can show you in Scripture where that theory comes from and the reason that Satan was angry in the Garden that God had recreated the universe and given the domain to man.

The Gap theory is very broad and is actually based on theory inside theory and could very well be true or false.

 

[Ben1445]

I don't how you come to that conclusion, but ok, that's your opinion and you should dismiss the possibility of the Gap Theory.

Truth is not so subjective.
We can’t all have our own reality.
It is one thing to say that we have different opinions or conclusions.
It is another thing to say that it is fine if we all come to different conclusions about the truth.
It makes it sound like there are multiple truths that oppose each other.
In the end, truth, even in the theoretical stages must have a firm foundation.

 

[Ben1445]

I can show you in Scripture where that theory comes from

Please do.
Specifically where it comes from and not where it fits in.