The Cross of Christ discussion

[evangelist6589]

The unbeliever I am chatting with that I mentioned earlier seems interested in challenging his views or I have persuaded him to do so. The verses I sent his way defending the atonement bounce right off him so I suggested books to better comment on the Bible. He did not want to buy a
systematic theology so chose the book The Cross of Christ by John Stott. Me and him will be going through this book together. But no doubt his view denying the blood of Christ and his liberal theology views I would place him outside orthodoxy.

If anyone is also interested in going through this book to aide me in helping my friend please buy the book and let's have a online class discussion. We will read various chapters and discuss it and do some pop quizzes. I am already doing the same with another poster on the topic of evangelism. Anyone interested please let me know thanks...

If you do not read books but only the Bible just to let you know I am aware of a dozen verses defending a vicarious atonement and have explained then but my friend needs a scholarly commentary which I am not.

 

[Yeshua1]

The unbeliever I am chatting with that I mentioned earlier seems interested in challenging his views or I have persuaded him to do so. The verses I sent his way defending the atonement bounce right off him so I suggested books to better comment on the Bible. He did not want to buy a
systematic theology so chose the book The Cross of Christ by John Stott. Me and him will be going through this book together. But no doubt his view denying the blood of Christ and his liberal theology views I would place him outside orthodoxy.

If anyone is also interested in going through this book to aide me in helping my friend please buy the book and let's have a online class discussion. We will read various chapters and discuss it and do some pop quizzes. I am already doing the same with another poster on the topic of evangelism. Anyone interested please let me know thanks...

If you do not read books but only the Bible just to let you know I am aware of a dozen verses defending a vicarious atonement and have explained then but my friend needs a scholarly commentary which I am not.

.That is a very good book, right up there with Knowing God...

 

[evangelist6589]

.That is a very good book, right up there with Knowing God...

I thought you did not read books but only the Bible? Yes thanks I will look forward to discussing and reading the book with this Catholic.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I thought you did not read books but only the Bible? Yes thanks I will look forward to discussing and reading the book with this Catholic.

Be forewarned, though, IF you do not know already.
Most Catholics do not accept Sola Scriptura.
They will quote others as authorities also, even customs, traditions, etc.

 

[evangelist6589]

Be forewarned, though, IF you do not know already.

Most Catholics do not accept Sola Scriptura.

They will quote others as authorities also, even customs, traditions, etc.

I know. But at least he wants to reason with me. How many Humanists would do this?

 

[JamesL]

Be forewarned, though, IF you do not know already.
Most Catholics do not accept Sola Scriptura.
They will quote others as authorities also, even customs, traditions, etc.

That's ok. 98% of the people on this board don't accept Sola Scriptura. The web links, copy/paste jobs, and references to others for authority should be enough to see that.

Heck, at one time I thought Evan was Sola MacArthura.

 

[blessedwife318]

Sola Scriptura is given lip service in many circles but is practically denied. As I heard I think from Justin Peters we have won for the part the war for inerrancy but we don't even realize we are losing the war on the sufficiency of Scripture. If I had a non Christian willing to discuss a book with me you can bet it would be a book of the Bible most likely John. Let the Word of God do its work. You don't have to defend a lion just let it out of the cage.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Sola Scriptura is given lip service in many circles but is practically denied. As I heard I think from Justin Peters we have won for the part the war for inerrancy but we don't even realize we are losing the war on the sufficiency of Scripture. If I had a non Christian willing to discuss a book with me you can bet it would be a book of the Bible most likely John. Let the Word of God do its work. You don't have to defend a lion just let it out of the cage.

THIS!!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[evangelist6589]

That's ok. 98% of the people on this board don't accept Sola Scriptura. The web links, copy/paste jobs, and references to others for authority should be enough to see that.

Heck, at one time I thought Evan was Sola MacArthura.

You misunderstand. The Bible is the authority and when Mac departs from it (which is rare but does sometimes happen) I say he is wrong. I also recently tossed some books that claimed Christ, but used more psychology than Bible and it was obvious the Word was not their authority.

 

[evangelist6589]

Sola Scriptura is given lip service in many circles but is practically denied. As I heard I think from Justin Peters we have won for the part the war for inerrancy but we don't even realize we are losing the war on the sufficiency of Scripture. If I had a non Christian willing to discuss a book with me you can bet it would be a book of the Bible most likely John. Let the Word of God do its work. You don't have to defend a lion just let it out of the cage.

I give out dozens of Gospel of John's on my witness on the streets. I also gave my Catholic friend many verses in support of the sub atonement but he spit them all out. He also claims to have read John. Sometimes a book on the atonement which obviously uses loads of scripture but explains them well would be better.

 

[Rippon]

I give out dozens of Gospel of John's on my witness on the streets.

From what translation?

I also gave my Catholic friend many verses in support of the sub atonement but he spit them all out.

There is a time for abbreviations --but please refer to it as the penal substitutionary atonement. "Sub atonement" just doesn't cut it.

 

[evangelist6589]

From what translation?

There is a time for abbreviations --but please refer to it as the penal substitutionary atonement. "Sub atonement" just doesn't cut it.

NIV/ESV and sometimes the KJV.

www.ptl.org

 

[Don]

You misunderstand. The Bible is the authority and when Mac departs from it (which is rare but does sometimes happen) I say he is wrong. I also recently tossed some books that claimed Christ, but used more psychology than Bible and it was obvious the Word was not their authority.

You do realize that you just proved their point for them, right?

 

[Don]

(double post)

 

[JamesL]

You misunderstand. The Bible is the authority and when Mac departs from it (which is rare but does sometimes happen) I say he is wrong. I also recently tossed some books that claimed Christ, but used more psychology than Bible and it was obvious the Word was not their authority.

But Sola Scriptura isn't a matter of whether their view comes from scripture or not. When they are your go-to authority for spiritual matters, then you have departed from Sola Scriptura.

I offended my pastor's wife last night in our bible study on Born Again. About 6 times she said, "well for me, I need to be the one to close the deal" or "for me....."

I said "lady, I don't give one hoot what you think about it or how you feel about it. I care about one thing - where do you find your position in the scriptures?"

See, she has made herself the authority. Many here have made philosophical reasoning their authority. They've put the scriptures down, and are arguing from empty philosophy.

Every time you say, "I'm going to what Mac has to say about it", then you have indeed abandoned Sola Scriptura. You've made the opinions of men your authority.

Just like the RCC. They said "WE will tell you what scripture means. WE are the authority"

 

[blessedwife318]

But Sola Scriptura isn't a matter of whether their view comes from scripture or not. When they are your go-to authority for spiritual matters, then you have departed from Sola Scriptura.

I offended my pastor's wife last night in our bible study on Born Again. About 6 times she said, "well for me, I need to be the one to close the deal" or "for me....."

I said "lady, I don't give one hoot what you think about it or how you feel about it. I care about one thing - where do you find your position in the scriptures?"

See, she has made herself the authority. Many here have made philosophical reasoning their authority. They've put the scriptures down, and are arguing from empty philosophy.

Every time you say, "I'm going to what Mac has to say about it", then you have indeed abandoned Sola Scriptura. You've made the opinions of men your authority.

Just like the RCC. They said "WE will tell you what scripture means. WE are the authority"

Good post.
Can commentaries be helpful, Yes but when it comes to authority our first and only response should be "the Bible Say..." It is the Word of God that is living and active able to divide soul and spirit. No other book or person can do that.

 

[evangelist6589]

But Sola Scriptura isn't a matter of whether their view comes from scripture or not. When they are your go-to authority for spiritual matters, then you have departed from Sola Scriptura.



I offended my pastor's wife last night in our bible study on Born Again. About 6 times she said, "well for me, I need to be the one to close the deal" or "for me....."



I said "lady, I don't give one hoot what you think about it or how you feel about it. I care about one thing - where do you find your position in the scriptures?"



See, she has made herself the authority. Many here have made philosophical reasoning their authority. They've put the scriptures down, and are arguing from empty philosophy.



Every time you say, "I'm going to what Mac has to say about it", then you have indeed abandoned Sola Scriptura. You've made the opinions of men your authority.



Just like the RCC. They said "WE will tell you what scripture means. WE are the authority"

I always go to the Bible and check it out. I just like Mac which you do not as it's obvious.

 

[evangelist6589]

Good post.

Can commentaries be helpful, Yes but when it comes to authority our first and only response should be "the Bible Say..." It is the Word of God that is living and active able to divide soul and spirit. No other book or person can do that.

Exactly! But also remember Ephesians 4. God gave teaches.

 

[JamesL]

It is the Word of God that is living and active able to divide soul and spirit. No other book or person can do that.

Yes. Good stuff.

 

[Yeshua1]

I thought you did not read books but only the Bible? Yes thanks I will look forward to discussing and reading the book with this Catholic.

No, its that while i have read and learned a lot from systematic theologies, survey books, introductions etc, the ONLY book to get doctrines and practices are the bible itself...

other sources can agree with the bible, but the Bible itself is only inspired source...