The crucifixion-resurrection timeline: A third view

[Calminian]

Mark 14:12 sets the date according to the Jewish calendar as the 14th, Exodus 12:6 and Exodus 12:18. Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover that following evening Mark 14:17. Just as Jews do to this day. Christ being crucified that day, which follows its evening making the day of the crucifixion on the 15th, not the 14th. Jewish dates begin at sun down.

There's something missing from this that I need to understand it.. The 14th of what year? Does the 14th always fall on a Thursday? Is that what you're saying? Or is there a year assumption connected with this?

I'll plead ignorance, but perhaps you can walk me through it.

 

[Calminian]

The women could not buy spices on Fri according to this scenario

Why not?

 

[loDebar]

Why not?

Did not you have Fri as Passover?
Nothing could be sold ,neither on Sat

 

[Calminian]

Did not you have Fri as Passover?

No.

 

[loDebar]

No.

You had Fri. Crucifixion,

Mar 16:1
¶
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

When could they buy spices? They were not expecting His death and could not buy on the weekly Sabbath.

 

[loDebar]

". . . it was the preparation [παρασκευη], that is, the day before the sabbath, . . ." -- Mark 15:42. Also to this day the Greek for the 6th day of the week is called and so translates, "Preperation." Παρασκευή

Mat 27:62
¶
Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

What day of the week do you say this is?

 

[Calminian]

You had Fri. Crucifixion,

Mar 16:1
¶
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

When could they buy spices? They were not expecting His death and could not buy on the weekly Sabbath.

I think Sunday morning works just fine. John tells us they left while it was still in the twilight of the morning, still dark.

John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.​

Other passages suggest they arrived at the tomb at or just before sunrise, so that's a good 30 to 45 minutes from first twilight to sunrise.

The key word above is "early." It means early in the morning, and since it was still dark, it has to refer to the twilight of the morning, that period of time when the light begins to shine before sunrise.

 

[loDebar]

I think Sunday morning works just fine. John tells us they left while it was still in the twilight of the morning, still dark.

John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.​

Other passages suggest they arrived at the tomb at or just before sunrise, so that's a good 30 to 45 minutes from first twilight to sunrise.

The key word above is "early." It means early in the morning, and since it was still dark, it has to refer to the twilight of the morning, that period of time when the light begins to shine before sunrise.

not just when then went to the tomb, but when did they buy the spices, not Sunday, too early, not Sat , the weekly sabbath,
They had to be bought, Fri before sundown. but as a Fri. Crucifixion, the timing would not work. Remember they had to hurry and get Him off the cross and into a tomb

 

[MB]

Here's the Wednesday view, where they interpret the heart of the earth as the grave and need 72 hours of grave time. It is from the jewish perspective of days starting in the evening. In this view he's actually placed in the grave just prior to the 1st night and raises just after the 3rd day. But it accounts for the full 72 hours, 3 days and 3 nights.

When I believed heart of the earth was a reference to the grave, I liked this view, despite it's problems.

I like this explanation best as well thanks
MB

 

[loDebar]

so the Last Supper and Beth-same was Wed. The Last Supper was not Passover Seder

 

[Calminian]

I like this explanation best as well thanks
MB

I did too. Then I discovered this.

In this scenario, Saturday becomes the third day, and there is actually no scenario in which Sunday is the third day. Even if counting is delayed until Wednesday night (the start of Thursday). We have numerous Scriptures affirming that Sunday is the third day. The Wednesday scenario just doesn't work.

 

[37818]

There's something missing from this that I need to understand it.. The 14th of what year? Does the 14th always fall on a Thursday? Is that what you're saying? Or is there a year assumption connected with this?

I'll plead ignorance, but perhaps you can walk me through it.

The 14th falls on diffrent days depending on the year. In 33 A.D. on a Friday, in 30 A.D. on a Wednesday. Christ wkas crucified the day following in Mark 14:12. Its evening Mark 14:17 is before its day.

Here is a tool: Calendar Converter

Jewish days: The Jewish Day

 

[Calminian]

The 14th falls on diffrent days depending on the year....

Then how is this information helpful?

 

[percho]

The other problem with pre-Friday views is the definition of day. Day is defined in Genesis by God himself. It is the daylight portion of the day/night cycle. If the giving over of Jesus was Thursday or Wednesday, you have too many days—4 if Thursday, 5 if Wednesday. Only a giving over on Friday gives us Sunday as the third day.

Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. Jonah 1:17 ---- Was Jonah in the belly of the fish three days and three nights?

Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. Jonah 2:1,2 ----- Is the belly of the fish, metaphorically, spoken of as hell? Is the word for hell there from the Hebrew sheol?
The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God. When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple. ---- Would you agree that it was, "the soul," named Jonah who was metaphorically in sheol for three days and three nights?

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt 12L40 --- Is the Son of Man, the soul, Jesus of Nazareth?

For there is not in death Thy memorial, In Sheol, who doth give thanks to Thee? Ps 6:5
Cords of Sheol have surrounded me, Before me have been snares of death. Ps 18:5
Who is the man that liveth, and doth not see death? He delivereth his soul from the hand of Sheol. Selah. Ps 89:48

Do death and sheol appear to take place at the same time?

For Thou dost not leave my soul to Sheol, Nor givest thy saintly one to see corruption. Ps 16:10 YLT
When did the soul find itself in Sheol?
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Acts 2:27 KJV
because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption; YLT
“he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. Acts 2:31 NKJV

How long was the soul Jesus in Hades/Sheol When did the soul Jesus enter Hades/Sheol?

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Eph 4:8-10

 

[Calminian]

Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. Jonah 1:17 ---- Was Jonah in the belly of the fish three days and three nights?

Yes.

Would you agree that it was, "the soul," named Jonah who was metaphorically in sheol for three days and three nights?

metaphorically, sure I'll go with that, but you can apply metaphors to many things.

Is the Son of Man, the soul, Jesus of Nazareth?

Yes.

Do death and sheol appear to take place at the same time?

literal death and sheol, yes. metaphorical sheol and literal death, no.

How long was the soul Jesus in Hades/Sheol When did the soul Jesus enter Hades/Sheol?

Actually, you made my argument. If Jonah being captive in a whale can be metaphorical Sheol, then certainly Jesus being captive to sinful earthly authorities can also be metaphorical Sheol.

So, inadvertently, you've hit the nail on the head. You've proved that Sheol in regard to Jonah was not literal death, and by extension proved that the heart of the earth doesn't mean the grave and death per se. Jesus was speaking more broadly, bringing the belly of the whale analogy to life.

BTW, even today, when we use terms like belly of the beast, we are never referring directly to death. Instead the phrase implies a dangerous or dire situation. Heart of the earth seems to carry the same meaning, along with the idea of leaders and authorities.

 

[37818]

Mat 27:62
¶
Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

What day of the week do you say this is?

I understand it to be the Sabbath, the day before the resurrection.

 

[37818]

Then how is this information helpful?

It identifies the Jewish calendar date of the crucifixion, 15th, Mark 14:12 being the 14th. Jesus started His ministry in 28 A.D. (Luke 3:1) and was crucified in 30 A.D. And that Julian date was Thursday, April 6th, 30 A.D. Now John 13:1-2 was not a Sabbath, so the next day, John 12:12, was not our Sunday. 6 days before Wednesday, the 14th, was Thursday, making the next day a Friday not a Sunday. Counting backwards from Sunday 3 days is a Thursday, Luke 24:21. It all fits together.

 

[loDebar]

I understand it to be the Sabbath, the day before the resurrection.

Wrong Sabbath. Passover is a Holy day, a Sabbath

 

[Calminian]

...Jesus started His ministry in 28 A.D. (Luke 3:1) and was crucified in 30 A.D. And that Julian date was Thursday, April 6th, 30 A.D. Now John 13:1-2 was not a Sabbath, so the next day, John 12:12, was not our Sunday. 6 days before Wednesday, the 14th, was Thursday, making the next day a Friday not a Sunday. Counting backwards from Sunday 3 days is a Thursday, Luke 24:21. It all fits together.

I have no idea if any of this is true. Scripture does not give these dates, they are assumed through extra biblical historical sources, which are not authoritative. You are in essence saying we have credible historical sources that Jesus was crucified Thursday. Yet very few believe it and hold to that tradition, now or historically, and it contradicts the internal evidence in the NT. Only Scripture is inspired, and only Scripture is needed for this debate.

Is Sunday the third day since the handing over of Jesus? Thursday makes Saturday the third day. Thursday is not the Preparation Day.

 

[37818]

Wrong Sabbath. Passover is a Holy day, a Sabbath

Ok, you are mistaken. Christ was crucified on tbat Passover "Sabbath," the 15th, the day following the 14th, Mark 14:12.