Featured The Crux of Keeping the Sabbath Day Contention

Jesus spoke of prophecies of Himself, not the Sabbath. What has that got to do with Bob's indiscriminate use of OT passages of scripture concerning Israel and the Sabbath?

Paul speaks of using the scripture to equip the man of God.
What has that got to do with an SDA taking OT scripture out of context to support his false doctrined?

They examined the scripture to verify Paul's message of the gospel, not to see if the law of the sabbath was true. There is no commandment to keep the Sabbath. Paul himself spoke against it.

Not one verse in the Bible supports false doctrine.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

First, if you never read the OT scriptures that he used and why he used them, or the previous posts in this thread where those very same verses have already been refuted you don't have much to say or contribute.

This is a debate based on the word of God, or as Bob already affirmed "sola scriptura," not your experiences.

 

Contraire my friend, 2 Timothy 3:16.

All of it is inspired in the same way not merely some way - i.e. God breathed.

No one kept the Sabbath but Christ. No one could which is the intent. We (NT believers) are entered into rest. You don't seem to understand the intent of this.

Nor were the above commanded to do this. Cautious

 

I've read them maybe a couple times or so...

But I have and then I contributed, and had valid points and much to say and contribute.

Nothing in my post focused on my experiences but on defending the OT Scriptures from being mitigated and trivialized.

 

Oh lawd!! Just because they did what was right in their eyes does not mean it was okay to do it.

All scripture is for all believers, is applicable to all believers. In fact, they enjoy all scripture.

 

LaughRoflmaoLaughRoflmao

Hammer met nail head on this'n!!!!!

 

DHK, as IT already stated, Christ was the only who kept the Sabbath. We keep it through Him. We are to observe the Sabbath the best we can. I work in a hospital and work every other weekend, so I have to work.

 

Well here is your problem you think that is a command when it is a commentary on the depravity of man.

 

That right there is rich!

 

Where did I mention the sabbath and SDA? I'm just responding to your discarding of the scriptures. Although from you it should come as no surprise.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

2 Tim 3:16 "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine"
Luke 24: 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures."

Your methods.. .condemned by both Paul AND Christ.

What "NT texts" do imagine they were reading in Acts 17:11 ???

"They studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things were so" Acts 17:11

You are in the process of completely destroying your own arguments for "sola scriptura" with Herbert.

You can't have it "both ways"

 

Its called "proof-by-ad-hominem" and name-calling.

Comes up every now and then on this board.

 

Christ stated clearly that it is "lawful to do good on the Sabbath" when he healed people on the Sabbath.

 

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
Christ was not teaching rebellion against the Law of God.

"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

So then - three questions for you.

1. Is Christ showing a "slavish" interesting in keeping the 5th commandment in Mark 7 - when he condemns the Jews for breaking it??

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

2. Are Catholics falsely accused of "idol worship" in their church service - by those with a "slavish" devotion to keeping the 2nd commandment?

Ex 20
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

In other words - do you see a "good way" to keep those commandments that is the same - as what would be expected in keeping God's 4th Commandment?

3. Eph 6:2 - what "unit" of Law - still valid for NT saints is being identified by Paul - such that it has the 5th Commandment "as the FIRST Commandment with a promise"?? What would the first century NT reader have found to be such a unit of :Law?

 

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/sabbath-rest/

Sabbath Rest
by Sinclair Ferguson

The anonymous author of Hebrews found different ways of describing the superiority of the Lord Jesus Christ. One of them, which forms the underlying motif of chapters 3 and 4, is that Jesus Christ gives the rest that neither Moses nor Joshua could provide. Under Moses, the people of God were disobedient and failed to enter into God’s rest (3:18). Psalm 95:11 (quoted in Hebrews 4:3) implies that Joshua could not have given the people “real rest” since “through David” God speaks about the rest he will give on another day (Heb. 4:7). This in turn implies that “There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God” (Heb. 4:9).

In speaking of this rest (3:18; 4:1, 3-6, 8) the author consistently used the same word for “rest” (katapausis). Suddenly, in speaking about the “rest” that remains for the people of God, he uses a different word (sabbatismos, used only here in the NT) meaning specifically a Sabbath rest. In the context of his teaching, this refers fundamentally to the “Sabbath rest” which is found in Christ (“Come … I will give you rest,” Matt. 11:28-30). Thus we are to “strive to enter that rest” (4:11).

Since Augustine, Christians have recognized that the Bible describes human experience in a fourfold scheme: in(i) creation, (ii) fall, (iii) redemption and (iv) glory. We are familiar with echoes of this in the Westminster Confession of Faith (chapter 9) and in Thomas Boston’s great book Human Nature in its Fourfold State. It is no surprise then that the Sabbath, which was made for man, is experienced by him in four ways.

In creation, man was made as God’s image—intended “naturally” as God’s child to reflect his Father. Since his Father worked creatively for six days and rested on the seventh, Adam, like a son, was to copy Him. Together, on the seventh day, they were to walk in the garden. That day was a time to listen to all the Father had to show and tell about the wonders of His creating work.

Thus the Sabbath Day was meant to be “Father’s Day” every week. It was “made” for Adam. It also had a hint of the future in it. The Father had finished His work, but Adam had not.

But Adam fell. He ruined everything, including the Sabbath. Instead of walking with God, he hid from God (Gen. 3:8). It was the Sabbath, Father’s Day, but God had to look for him!

This new context helps us to understand the significance of the fourth commandment. It was given to fallen man—that is why it contains a “you shall not.” He was not to work, but to rest. Externally, that meant ceasing from his ordinary tasks in order to meet with God. Internally, it involved ceasing from all self-sufficiency in order to rest in God’s grace.

Considering this, what difference did the coming of Jesus make to the Sabbath day? In Christ crucified and risen, we find eternal rest (Matt. 11:28-30), and we are restored to communion with God (Matt. 11:25-30). The lost treasures of the Sabbath are restored. We rest in Christ from our labor of self-sufficiency, and we have access to the Father (Eph. 2:18). As we meet with Him, He shows us Himself, His ways, His world, His purposes, His glory. And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week&mdash the Lord’s Day.

But we have not yet reached the goal. We still struggle to rest from our labors; we still must “strive to enter that rest” (Heb. 4:11). Consequently the weekly nature of the Sabbath continues as a reminder that we are not yet home with the Father. And since this rest is ours only through union with Christ in His death and resurrection, our struggles to refuse the old life and enjoy the new continue.

But one may ask: “How does this impact my Sundays as a Christian?” This view of the Sabbath should help us regulate our weeks. Sunday is “Father’s Day,” and we have an appointment to meet Him. The child who asks “How short can the meeting be?” has a dysfunctional relationship problem—not an intellectual, theological problem—something is amiss in his fellowship with God.

This view of the Sabbath helps us deal with the question “Is it ok to do … on Sunday?—because I don’t have any time to do it in the rest of the week?” If this is our question, the problem is not how we use Sunday, it is how we are misusing the rest of the week.

This view of the Lord’s Day helps us see the day as a foretaste of heaven. And it teaches us that if the worship, fellowship, ministry, and outreach of our churches do not give expression to that then something is seriously amiss.

Hebrews teaches us that eternal glory is a Sabbath rest. Every day, all day, will be “Father’s Day!” Thus if here and now we learn the pleasures of a God-given weekly rhythm, it will no longer seem strange to us that the eternal glory can be described as a prolonged Sabbath!

 

Simply piling false accusation on top of false accusation is not a Bible study - is not exegesis - is not establishing the legitimacy of the false accusation. Why not make at least some attempt to "prove" from scripture that your false accusations have some "Substance"??

 

There are TWO pro-Sunday arguments. One is hinted at in the article from R.C. Sproul's group. And is also in harmony with what you find in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" (Section 19) and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" (also section 19). D.L. Moody, C.H. Spurgeon and others strongly affirmed this particular pro-TEN Commandments view in his own promotion of Sunday.

The "OTHER" pro-sunday group - simply condemns all the Ten Commandments or alternately condemns at least one of them. DHK and a few others here join that "other" pro-sunday camp no matter their differences with the one represented by Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon, Matthew Henry, D.L. Moody etc.

As for the "conflict" between the two groups - as Andy Stanley said in his own "Ten Commandment sermon" when speaking of the third commandment -- not to take God's name in vain -- ONE form of taking God's name in vain is to claim that "God told you NOT to keep one of the TEN Commandments".


Comparing those TWO - pro-Sunday groups and contrasting them can be done in 7 easy statements.

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.

The first pro-sunday group - the D.L. Moody, Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon... "Baptist Confession of Faith" - groups have this as their platform.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.


The second pro-Sunday group -- argues much like DHK - and would object to all 7 points in that list.

==========================================

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above -

When DHK and I debate this subject - it is almost always regarding 1 of the 7 points above - or to be more precise one of the first 6 points above -

 

Who said anything different? I didn't.

Are you debating or trolling? I sense the latter.
If not, then why not convince our resident SDA of this truth. You don't need to convince me of it!

Did I say they were?

Let me ask you some questions:
Do you know the title of this thread?
Do you know what the OP states?
Do you know that I am answering your post #163 on page 9 of this thread?
Have you read the previous nine pages to be informed of the topic that is being debated here?
Or is your real purpose just to follow me around, derail the thread, and make life miserable?

I sense the latter, and if true, I trust another moderator/administrator will take note.

 

But you didn't contribute here. You had nothing of value to contribute, not a single scripture could you refer to that was being discussed because you did not read the thread. You just jump in with both feet not even caring what the OP says.

When a statement begins "In my experience..." then it means "my experience," in my experience.