The "D" Chart: Part Deux

[Charlie24]

I’ve shown you multiple failures of prophecies taught by dispensationalists, and I’m the one lost in a sea of false prophecy?

I don't like to be rude but we're talking about the Word of God here, and I have no choice.

What you have shown me is that you have not one iota of an idea what you're talking about, especially Dispensationalism.

I'm sorry it's me but someone has to point it out.

What you have posted all day is nonsense, dreamed up by the fools you have chosen to believe.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And where do we read it was Herod's temple of that day that the man of sin sat in?

SG, my friend, you are lost in a sea of false prophecy.

The passage in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 says the man of lawlessness “takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” The text does not explicitly say “Herod’s temple,” but in its first-century context, this is clear. John and Paul wrote before AD 70. The only functioning Jewish temple at that time was Herod’s temple in Jerusalem, so that would have been the temple referenced. There was no other “temple of God” for the Jewish people.

The phrase “taking his seat” reflects the type of idolatrous claims made by rulers like Nero Caesar, who persecuted Christians, claimed divine status, and opposed God’s authority. Scholars understand the “temple” as both literal and symbolic: literally, the Jewish temple in Jerusalem; symbolically, God’s covenant authority, which the man of lawlessness arrogates to himself.

Historically, this fits Nero. He was active during Paul and John’s time, persecuted believers, and represented the forces of lawlessness that Paul said were “already at work” (2 Thessalonians 2:7). In Revelation 13:18, John encodes Nero’s identity through gematria: the Hebrew transliteration of “Nero Caesar” (נרון קסר, Nron Qsr) adds up to 666, the number of the Beast. This allowed John to warn first-century readers without naming Nero directly, while clearly identifying the oppressive ruler behind the prophecy.

Thus, Paul’s description in 2 Thessalonians 2 and John’s depiction of the Beast in Revelation are closely connected. The man of lawlessness was already active through Nero and his system of persecution. The “sitting in the temple of God” language fits the first-century setting — Herod’s temple was the locus of divine authority — and symbolizes the arrogant assumption of God’s prerogatives. The number 666 emphasizes human imperfection and rebellion, making the connection between the man of lawlessness and Nero clear for first-century readers.

In summary, the man of lawlessness was already at work in Paul and John’s day, and Nero Caesar is the historical figure that best fits both the 2 Thessalonians description and Revelation’s Beast. The prophecy is immediate and historical, not a distant, millennia-future figure.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't like to be rude but we're talking about the Word of God here, and I have no choice.

What you have shown me is that you have not one iota of an idea what you're talking about, especially Dispensationalism.

I'm sorry it's me but someone has to point it out.

What you have posted all day is nonsense, dreamed up by the fools you have chosen to believe.

Yes we are talking about the word of God. And it’s you dispensationalists who are in a sea of delusion. Failed prophecy after failed prophecy. Go back and look at all the failed end time, rapture predictions. Just a while back, a guy on X predicted the rapture to be either September 24 or 25, 2025. Pointed to several verses and a red heifer ready to be sacrificed. And here we are today.

Hal Lindsey made a small fortune by being wrong virtually every time. Same for John Hagee.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't like to be rude but we're talking about the Word of God here, and I have no choice.

What you have shown me is that you have not one iota of an idea what you're talking about, especially Dispensationalism.

I'm sorry it's me but someone has to point it out.

What you have posted all day is nonsense, dreamed up by the fools you have chosen to believe.

Who’s the next candidate to be the antichrist? Lord knows dispensationalists love failing choice after choice. They’ve gotten it wrong every time.

 

[Charlie24]

The passage in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 says the man of lawlessness “takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” The text does not explicitly say “Herod’s temple,” but in its first-century context, this is clear. John and Paul wrote before AD 70. The only functioning Jewish temple at that time was Herod’s temple in Jerusalem, so that would have been the temple referenced. There was no other “temple of God” for the Jewish people.

The phrase “taking his seat” reflects the type of idolatrous claims made by rulers like Nero Caesar, who persecuted Christians, claimed divine status, and opposed God’s authority. Scholars understand the “temple” as both literal and symbolic: literally, the Jewish temple in Jerusalem; symbolically, God’s covenant authority, which the man of lawlessness arrogates to himself.

Historically, this fits Nero. He was active during Paul and John’s time, persecuted believers, and represented the forces of lawlessness that Paul said were “already at work” (2 Thessalonians 2:7). In Revelation 13:18, John encodes Nero’s identity through gematria: the Hebrew transliteration of “Nero Caesar” (נרון קסר, Nron Qsr) adds up to 666, the number of the Beast. This allowed John to warn first-century readers without naming Nero directly, while clearly identifying the oppressive ruler behind the prophecy.

Thus, Paul’s description in 2 Thessalonians 2 and John’s depiction of the Beast in Revelation are closely connected. The man of lawlessness was already active through Nero and his system of persecution. The “sitting in the temple of God” language fits the first-century setting — Herod’s temple was the locus of divine authority — and symbolizes the arrogant assumption of God’s prerogatives. The number 666 emphasizes human imperfection and rebellion, making the connection between the man of lawlessness and Nero clear for first-century readers.

In summary, the man of lawlessness was already at work in Paul and John’s day, and Nero Caesar is the historical figure that best fits both the 2 Thessalonians description and Revelation’s Beast. The prophecy is immediate and historical, not a distant, millennia-future figure.

Only took 2 sentences.

The popular belief is that John wrote Revelation long after the temple was destroyed in 70 ad.

It's basically some of the Reformed and the Preterists that believe otherwise.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Only took 2 sentences.

The popular belief is that John wrote Revelation long after the temple was destroyed in 70 ad.

It's basically some of the Reformed and the Preterists that believe otherwise.

So, what do you see going on today to make you believe the rapture is near? Let’s flesh this out.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Only took 2 sentences.

The popular belief is that John wrote Revelation long after the temple was destroyed in 70 ad.

It's basically some of the Reformed and the Preterists that believe otherwise.

But Paul wrote he, the man of lawlessness, was already at work in verse 7. It clearly states it, in no uncertain terms.

 

[Charlie24]

But Paul wrote he, the man of lawlessness, was already at work in verse 7. It clearly states it, in no uncertain terms.

Paul said in vs 7 "the mystery of iniquity does already work."

He is referring to exactly what you have been posting all day about letting on man deceive you.

Paul is zeroing in on this mystery of the appearing of the anti-Christ.

Even in Paul's day there was all types of theories going on concerning the mystery of the anti-Christ.

We don't have all of what Paul told them, look at this.

In 2 Thes. 2:5 Paul tells them, don't you remember when I was with you I told you these things.

If we had that conversation from Paul we probably wouldn't be arguing now, we would know.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Paul said in vs 7 "the mystery of iniquity does already work."

He is referring to exactly what you have been posting all day about letting on man deceive you.

Paul is zeroing in on this mystery of the appearing of the anti-Christ.

Even in Paul's day there was all types of theories going on concerning the mystery of the anti-Christ.

We don't have all of what Paul told them, look at this.

In 2 Thes. 2:5 Paul tells them, don't you remember when I was with you I told you these things.

If we had that conversation from Paul we probably wouldn't be arguing now, we would know.

So, what exactly do you see going on today that leads you to believe the rapture is about to take place?

 

[easternstar]

I am not an advocate of 'replacement theology'; however, I also do not believe that Israel/the Jews are the center of God's history and that the church is merely a parenthesis, to be taken out of here so that God can deal with his true focus, the Jews and Israel! To me, that tramples underfoot Christ's work and mission and sets up a two-path approach to salvation -- one for Gentiles and another for Jews.. And the idea that God approves a third temple being built where animals will get their throats slit again is horrrible, repulsive, and an insult to God!

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am not an advocate of 'replacement theology'; however, I also do not believe that Israel/the Jews are the center of God's history and that the church is merely a parenthesis, to be taken out of here so that God can deal with his true focus, the Jews and Israel! To me, that tramples underfoot Christ's work and mission and sets up a two-path approach to salvation -- one for Gentiles and another for Jews.. And the idea that God approves a third temple being built where animals will get their throats slit again is horrrible, repulsive, and an insult to God!

Welcome to the thread and quite a good first response in this thread. Dispensationalism rebuilds the wall that Christ tore down, that wall that once separated Jews from proselyte Jews (converted Gentiles to Jewish religion). There is but one ppl of God, one body of Christ, that is comprised of both believing Jews and Gentiles. And no, the church did no replace Israel, but is the consummation of all believers of all time.

 

[SovereignGrace]

@Ascetic X I noticed you were viewing this thread, so what do you see going on today that leads you to believe the rapture will soon take place?

 

[John of Japan]

I asked ChatGPT this: Failed dispensationalist prophecies from the 1970's? (and yes, I realize its AI and may not be 100% accurate, but I figure its pert neer it)

1. Hal Lindsey – “The Late Great Planet Earth” (1970)

Claim: Lindsey suggested that a series of geopolitical events (such as the rise of the European Common Market, Israel’s 1948 rebirth, and the Cold War tensions) indicated that the end times were imminent. Some readers interpreted this as predicting the rapture and tribulation within their lifetimes.

Outcome: No rapture or tribulation occurred in the 1970s. The book did inspire a generation of evangelical futurists but its time-specific predictions failed.

2. Pat Robertson – Predictions on Israel and Armageddon

Claim: On his television program and in writings, Robertson frequently tied current Middle East conflicts (including the Yom Kippur War of 1973) to biblical prophecy, sometimes suggesting that the “end of the age” was near.

Outcome: None of these specific apocalyptic events occurred in the predicted timeframe.

3. “The Omega Code” / Charles F. “Chuck” Missler type predictions

Claim: Certain dispensationalist authors in the late 1960s–1970s predicted the rapture or Armageddon in the 1970s, often citing numerology, Israel, or political developments as signs.

Outcome: The predicted rapture or world-altering events did not happen.

4. Hal Lindsey’s Date Speculations

Lindsey himself avoided giving an exact date, but many interpreters of his work fixated on the 1970s or early 1980s as the “generation” of the end times due to his interpretation of Israel’s rebirth in 1948 (using a “70-year generation” logic).

Outcome: Again, no rapture, tribulation, or second coming occurred during this period.

Why these failed

Many of these prophecies depended on literalist readings of Daniel, Revelation, and Ezekiel, combined with contemporary events.

They often relied on speculative timelines or symbolic interpretations treated as literal (e.g., the “70 weeks” prophecy, the number of years from Israel’s rebirth).

Dispensationalist futurism is flexible, so when prophecies failed, some adherents reinterpreted them rather than abandoning the framework entirely.

Oh, not ChapGPT for theology. Say it isn't so!! That's the last source on Planet Earth I would use for theology (or any other AI).