The Jews without fear of defiling themselves before their Passover-meal, went in to ask Pilate - they had had their meal! They also spoke to Pilate just before Joseph did. And Joseph "went in" to Pilate to ask him for the body of Jesus, "WHEN IT HAD GOT EVENING (AFTER SUNSET) ALREADY". So says it, "it (now) being the Preparation that is called the Before-Sabbath". Day started! Jesus had NOT been buried at 6 pm, but His body at 6 pm was still hanging on the cross. Joseph only the following "afternoon as the (weekly) Sabbath was approaching" (Lk.23:54-56), closed the grave. Jesus' body would only remain in the grave in hours one day that extended over two days of the three days only.
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The Day od the week of Jesus' Crucifixion and the Apostolic Constitutions
- Thread starter Gerhard Ebersoehn
- Start date
The 'Sabbath' that according to all the Gospels had just begun as Joseph started undertaking, was the Passover's Sabbath, 15 Nisan; it AT THE SAME TIME was Friday, "The Preparation called the Before-Sabbath" - "the preparation of the Jews", signified it, says John.
Yours is nearest my view so far, Prophecynut, but yet so far!
What I think was only an oversight: Jesus was not "crucified near the close of Nisan 14, which he was "about the ninth hour" or 3:00 P.M." - He then DIED.
Then, Quote: "laid in the tomb before sunset" ... knowing full well the general acceptance of it, I nevertheless take the liberty to differ emphatically!
One, it is never said so in the Gospels. On the contrary, Mk.15:42 adn Mt.27:57 say the opposite. So clearly the opposite, that newer 'Versions' drastically changed the text to suit tradition.
Even the OT reference itself is INCORRECTLY translated. The correct rendering is that "the hung body of the dead must not remain on the tree ALL THE NIGHT, but must be removed BEFORE SUNRISE and the SAME DAY following (its first half of night), be buried". See for a detailed examination http:www.biblestudents.co.za (Not the Russellites!)
The symbolism of the historic Passover prohibits the "remains" of the Passover should be destroyed the same day it was slaughtered; it was intructed it should be burnt (Jesus suffered hell for our salvation) the day after - on the day of its having been eaten the night previous. Israel took the "remains" with them out of the land they left, and only burned and buied the ashes at Succot ON NISAN 15 - ON the Passover-Sabbath! Jesus passion had come to an end; so He was already honoured in his death through burial - an honour shown Him that promised greater honour - His "triumphing gloriously" in resurrection from the grave and the dead.
Check second post back web-page incorrectly given. Here's it: http://www.biblestudents.co.za.
Thanks
Thanks
Yes, especially the translators gave it much thought, and have come up with ingenious ideas expressed in their manipulations of the texts concerned "to back it up a little"!Originally posted by tamborine lady:
Maybe the reason it seems complicated is because you don't have all the facts.
Matt 12-40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Jesus was in the earth 3 days and three nights. So even by the calculations you just did, He would have been in the earth until Sunday at six.
Need to back it up a little, to get it to be Sunday morning!! (first day of the week)
Peace,
Tam
nevertheless, you're right, and right because of the one wrong of "in the grave" for "in the heart of the earth". But even you thought fit not to adhere to the true text. You say "in the earth" - which is literal language; instead of, "In the HEART OF the earth" - which is no longer literal language, but quite clearly, symbolic language - symbolic (as I have said above) of Jonah's (literal) EXPERIENCE in the fish. Read the Book of Jonah and see his use of figurative speech. Figurative (understand me right) of what he went through LIVE! It applies not to the specification of time, which was real three days and real three nights. Neither Jesus nor Jonah spoke of "hours" and "minutes" and such nonsense. But neither spoke generally (in the case of Mt.12:40) about "three days", also.
Or one may view it the other way round, and find FIVE days instead of the three it is supposed to be! If understood "In the heart of the earth" means SUFFERING DEATH LIVE - what Jesus did - while maintaining three days and three nights IN THE GRAVE, then it gives:
Wednesday died - 3 hours of day 1;
Wednesday night and Thusday day in grave - day 2;
Thursday night and Friday day in grave - day 3;
Friday night and Saturday day in grave - day 4;
Saturday night and Sunday morning - day 5. (6 pm - is it Saturday or is it Sunday?)
Simply unacceptable! Simply illogical, mentally impossible, plain unscriptural!
Actually, in this place and instance, Jesus' exact words were not "three days", but "three days and three nights". It shows He meant what he said in this case - that He lifted out certain aspects and facts about and of the "three days". Thus day 1 was Crucifixion, day 2 he was in the grave, and day 3 He rose.
Also, the Bible says that they laid him in the tomb on the day of Preperation. The day of preperation in was Sundown Thursday to Sundown Friday. Exactly! The Bible nowhere says that they CRUCIFIED him on the day of Preparation OF THE SABBATH DAY. In John 19:31 the Bible unambigiously says they crucified Him on the "Preparation OF THE PASSOVER" - quite a different day it was than the day of preperation Sundown Thursday to Sundown Friday! You cannot say "It is more likely that he was crufied on Friday" while the Bible expressly states Joseph went in to ask Pilate for the body of Jesus only when the sun had set and "it was the Preparation that was the Before-Sabbath already".
Quote: "Another reason Christ had to have been crucified on Friday, is that he rose on the first day (Sunday) which was the third day." How do you get it? Your assumption is your proof for your assumption! It says NOT, "Sunday was the third day"; it says NOT "that he rose on the first day".
That is what the Sundaydarian translators have written for you to believe against the whole tenet of the whole Bible that it would be the Sabbath Day of God's rest that Jesus would glory in and through entering into God's rest Ultimate and exceeding all the works of God.
Dear friend,
You have a lot of reference-work to do!
Come back after you have, and let's take it from ther!
AdrianDavila
New Member
For the dating of Easter, here is reference 1:
http://www.suscopts.org/literature/literature.php?subaction=showfull&id=1084913586&archive=&start_from=&ucat=12&
Here is reference number 2 (Note: this article is mostly a defense of the celebration of Easter being different from the celebration of Passover, but it makes some good points):
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/FirEcSyn.pdf
[ August 20, 2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: AdrianDavila ]
http://www.suscopts.org/literature/literature.php?subaction=showfull&id=1084913586&archive=&start_from=&ucat=12&
Here is reference number 2 (Note: this article is mostly a defense of the celebration of Easter being different from the celebration of Passover, but it makes some good points):
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/FirEcSyn.pdf
[ August 20, 2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: AdrianDavila ]
No Prophecynut, it isn't complicated; it's only the confused interpretations that are complicated.
Christ was NOT crucified during the week-long Feast of Unleavened Bread - the Passover Feast - He was crucified on this Feast's "Preparation" 14 Nisan - "It was the Preparation OF THE PASSOVER". "Preparation of the Passover", whether Passover "FEAST"-period or Passover "Feast"-DAY (15 Nisan).
Christ was NOT crucified during or on the "special Sabbath" observed according to the lunar calendar" - "John 19:31" says as much because it says (as already quoted) "It was PREPARATION (Day) of the Passover". Nothing ccomplicated!
Following it, was the "special Sabbath of the Passover, (that) occurred on the Jewish day of Thursday sunset to Friday sunset ..." - 100%!
It was the Friday "... after the Passover day of Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset when Christ died on the cross at 3:00 P.M. Thursday." = 100%! THIS "Passover day" (Thursday) therefore, was "the Preparation of Passover-(day)".
And the "special Sabbath of the Passover, (that) occurred on the Jewish day of Thursday sunset to Friday sunset ..." was also, "the Preparation day for the special (weekly) Sabbath that followed".
Jesus was NOT buried before sunset on Thursday, and NOT on the SAME day He had been crucified and died, but on the day after it, on Friday, as is undeniably clear from Lk.23:54-56 as well as from Mk.15:42a. Jesus was placed in the tomb on Preparation day for the USUAL / "normal" Sabbath _ "IT BEING THE BEFORE-SABBATH" absolutely!
Mary did NOT, "The day after the normal Sabbath, VISIT the tomb (Mt. 28:1; Mk. 16:1, Lk 23:56)". She "SET OFF TO GO HAVE A LOOK at the grave" - in which resolve, she failed, having been prevented by both the great earthquake and by having heard of the guard. That Mary never finished what she set out to do, is confirmed by the fact nobody saw Jesus rise from the dead - which Mary must have witnessed if what Matthew described happened, was what Mary had seen.
Therefore:
"Passover and special (Passover)Preparation day - Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset" - 100%!
Therefore:
"Special (weekly) Sabbath and normal Preparation day - Thursday sunset to Friday sunset" - 100%!
Therefore:
"Normal Sabbath - Friday sunset to Saturday" - Resurrection!
I also got confused when I said: "Mary did NOT, "The day after the normal Sabbath, VISIT the tomb (Mt. 28:1; Mk. 16:1, Lk 23:56)". She "SET OFF TO GO HAVE A LOOK at the grave" - in which resolve, she failed, having been prevented by both the great earthquake and by having heard of the guard. That Mary never finished what she set out to do, is confirmed by the fact nobody saw Jesus rise from the dead - which Mary must have witnessed if what Matthew described happened, was what Mary had seen."
I should have said, Mary did NOT, the day OF the normal Sabbath, VISIT the tomb (Mt. 28:1) (Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56 were "visits" to the tomb - not Matthews' incident.) Mary "In the Sabbath's fulness of time", "SET OUT TO GO HAVE A LOOK at the grave" - in which resolve, she failed, having been prevented by both the great earthquake and by having heard of the guard - both things of which Matthew writes. That Mary never finished what she set out to do, is confirmed by the fact nobody saw Jesus rise from the dead - which Mary must have witnessed if what Matthew described happened, was what she had seen.
I should have said, Mary did NOT, the day OF the normal Sabbath, VISIT the tomb (Mt. 28:1) (Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56 were "visits" to the tomb - not Matthews' incident.) Mary "In the Sabbath's fulness of time", "SET OUT TO GO HAVE A LOOK at the grave" - in which resolve, she failed, having been prevented by both the great earthquake and by having heard of the guard - both things of which Matthew writes. That Mary never finished what she set out to do, is confirmed by the fact nobody saw Jesus rise from the dead - which Mary must have witnessed if what Matthew described happened, was what she had seen.
Your view has support from Michael P. Germano, “The Last Seder: Unscrambling the Baffling Chronology of the First Christian Passover,” Perspectives (Jul/Sept 2001). Check it out at http://www.bibarch.com/Perspectives/4.3.htm .
The crux of the matter is that the Essenes had their own calendar. Jesus celebrated the Passover according to the Essene calendar on Tuesday. He was crucified on Wednesday. A literal 3 days and 3 nights leads us to Sunday - just like you posted!
Lloyd </font>[/QUOTE]The 'Essene'-interpretation rests completely on one supposition merely - the erroneous presumption of the 'Last Supper' being the 'Seder'. Falls this theory, falls the Essene-view. And without substance it in fact is, by many factors, but first is that the Passover-meal - the Seder - could not have been eaten before the passover lamb had been slaughtered!
Enough; but there is MUCH more against it!
prophecynut
New Member
Gerhard, according to your profile you're interested in theology of the Sabbath, frankly it has been a 100% failure, you are messed up big time. Over and out Warpy.
tamborine lady
Active Member
News flash P-nut, just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean he's wrong!!
Peace,
Tam
Empty words based on ignorance of a dual calendar system. I don't think you ever read the article. It was a scholarly web journal article built on much respected work.
Like a cloud without rain to a parched land. Next time you try to refute something, try to say something! Don't come empty handed.
Lloyd
Praise God we are not required to understand it! For it has nothing to do with justification nor sanctification! Praise Jesus!
It may make for good conversation, but there is no reason to get frustrated over it. In Christ it matters not what special days are observed. Strive to worship and praise the Lord each and every day of the week in all that you do!
God Bless!
prophecynut
New Member
True on animal sacrifices, but on Passover Christ died and would not be available for the Sedar, so Christ, being smart as he is, held the Last Supper or Sedar before his death within the Passover week.
Empty words based on ignorance of a dual calendar system. I don't think you ever read the article. It was a scholarly web journal article built on much respected work.
Like a cloud without rain to a parched land. Next time you try to refute something, try to say something! Don't come empty handed.
Lloyd </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe - I say, maybe, I haven't read "the article" you have in mind. It doesn't mean I haven't read about the 'subject'. I presented one solid objection. You have said nothing against that argument; just jeer. Come on, are you acting like a Christian who must give account for what he believes?
Praise God we are not required to understand it! For it has nothing to do with justification nor sanctification! Praise Jesus!
It may make for good conversation, but there is no reason to get frustrated over it. In Christ it matters not what special days are observed. Strive to worship and praise the Lord each and every day of the week in all that you do!
God Bless!
How hypocritical is 'Christianity' at large!