The Days Are Coming When There Will Be A New Covenant With Israel & Judah

[prophet]

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrectionn such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

First Res. Includes Trib Martyrs...so has to be at end of Trib ( pre-wrath)

1Co 15:20-24
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Firstfruits of a Harvest arent the whole harvest.

Firstfruits of a Resurrection aren't the whole resurrection.

This passage is obviously chronological:
Christ's Res.
Our Res.
The end/ Mil. kingdom.

 

[beameup]

There is no doubt that beameup is hyper-.

There is no doubt that you are a Replacement Theologian.
Normally, using "replacement" as a foundation, preterism
and Origen's "spiritualization" of scripture is adopted to dismiss
any scripture referring to a future glorification of Jesus' kinsmen, the Jews.
It seems that amillennialism is frequently tied to Replacemtnt Theology
as well, proclaiming that the Glorious Kingdom is already present on the earth.
(the bit about oceanfront property in Arizona comes to mind).

The difference between Acts 2 and Acts 9 could hardly be categorized as "hyper-" anything.
As well, I really have no idea who "Bullinger" is and could care less.
but I am well aware of 4th Century Catholic Theology and the doctrines of
Augustine of Hippo, which seem to be popular with many posters.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
from Romans 11:20,21,23

 

[OldRegular]

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrectionn such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

First Res. Includes Trib Martyrs...so has to be at end of Trib ( pre-wrath)

What about the Rapture? Just how many resurrections are there?

1Co 15:20-24
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Firstfruits of a Harvest arent the whole harvest.

Firstfruits of a Resurrection aren't the whole resurrection.

This passage is obviously chronological:
Christ's Res.
Our Res.
The end/ Mil. kingdom.

So the Resurrection of Christ Jesus is the First Resurrection? That is unless you can show Scripture proving otherwise. And what are you going to do about John 5:28, 29; just ignore it?

 

[DHK]

What about the Rapture? Just how many resurrections are there?


So the Resurrection of Christ Jesus is the First Resurrection? That is unless you can show Scripture proving otherwise. And what are you going to do about John 5:28, 29; just ignore it?

Unless you read the entire sermon this one small passage will hardly do justice to the entire message. But I can't post the entire message. But you can go to the link and read it yourself.

So it is the resurrection of the just, it is the out resurrection of the dead. It is the resurrection of life in John 5. In Hebrews 11:35, further it says, "That they might obtain a better resurrection." It's called a better resurrection. And finally, in Revelation Chapter 20, in verse 6, "Blessed and holy is he that has part in the," what, "first resurrection."

So the Scripture very generally talks about the resurrection of the just, the resurrection of life, a better resurrection, the out resurrection from the dead, and it calls the first resurrection. Now watch this, the first resurrection...there's only two resurrections, the first and the second. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just, the redeemed. The second is the resurrection of the unjust, the condemned.

The first resurrection the just, the second resurrection the condemned. The first resurrection, now hang on to your hat has four parts. All right, the first resurrection which is the resurrection of the just has four parts. Part one is the resurrection of whom? Christ. Part two is the church resurrected at the rapture. 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4, verse 16, "The Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout, the voice of the arch angel, the trumpet of God, the dead in Christ shall rise." First, the resurrection.

So we have the resurrection of Christ, the resurrection of the church. Later on you have the tribulation time. And during the tribulation time, there's judgment and slaughter and all kinds of horrible things on and a lot of people die in the tribulation don't they? A lot of Godly people die.

At the end of the tribulation, they will be raised and that's part three. If you want to read about that, read the 20thChapter or Revelation, verses 3 to 5. It says "There was a resurrection of the souls beheaded for the witness of Jesus and they were raised to live and reign with Christ."

So you have then the resurrection of Christ, part one of the first resurrection. The resurrection of the church, which occurs at the rapture at the beginning the seven year tribulation. The resurrection of the tribulation saints at the end of the seven years, and the fourth part is the resurrection of the bodies of the Old Testament saints. And that occurs at the end of the tribulation simultaneous with the tribulation saints' resurrection. You got that?

You say why are you going through all of that? Well, because it says in verse 23, I've got to be faithful to the text. "Every man in his own order." In other words, there was a sequence. Tagma in the Greek is the word order. It means sequence. It originally had to do with military lines. And it is...there is a sequence to resurrection. Christ, the church, the tribulation saints, and the Old Testament saints. That makes the first resurrection.

The second resurrection, the resurrection of the ungodly and the condemned occurs 1,000 years later at the end of the kingdom when God gets all the rebels from all over and gathers them together and casts them to Hell.

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1879/the-resurrection-plan

 

[RLBosley]

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrectionn such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

First Res. Includes Trib Martyrs...so has to be at end of Trib ( pre-wrath)

1Co 15:20-24
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Firstfruits of a Harvest arent the whole harvest.

Firstfruits of a Resurrection aren't the whole resurrection.

This passage is obviously chronological:
Christ's Res.
Our Res.
The end/ Mil. kingdom.

It seems your basis of this understanding is the idea that Revelation is chronological, from beginning to end. Am I correct in this? However, notice this: Revelation can't be completely chronological, otherwise you have the world ending and Christ retuning, in wrath, 3 times. (Revelation 6, 11, and 19)

I admit I am not yet persuaded one way or another on how to interpret the resurrection/1,000 year language at in Revelation 20. I grew up pre-trib/pre-mill, but am now historic pre-mill (post-trib), but I see Amill as being highly likely. In fact, if it weren't for Rev 20, I'd be Amill.

There is no doubt that you are a Replacement Theologian.
Normally, using "replacement" as a foundation, preterism
and Origen's "spiritualization" of scripture is adopted to dismiss
any scripture referring to a future glorification of Jesus' kinsmen, the Jews.
It seems that amillennialism is frequently tied to Replacemtnt Theology
as well, proclaiming that the Glorious Kingdom is already present on the earth.
(the bit about oceanfront property in Arizona comes to mind).

The difference between Acts 2 and Acts 9 could hardly be categorized as "hyper-" anything.
As well, I really have no idea who "Bullinger" is and could care less.
but I am well aware of 4th Century Catholic Theology and the doctrines of
Augustine of Hippo, which seem to be popular with many posters.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
from Romans 11:20,21,23

Way to beat the crap out of that strawman!

If we don't agree with hyper-dispnsationalism, we're "replacement theologians," preterists, and we spiritualize scripture to ignore God's favoritism of Jews (even though Peter said "Now I really understand that God doesn't show favoritism"). Fascinating!

Beameup, please, seriously deal with the texts that I and OR have presented. I'll give you the link to make it easy for you:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2105584&postcount=38 - My contribution re Hebrews 8 and 9
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2106237&postcount=125 - My contribution re Christ's present Reign at the Father's right hand
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2106352&postcount=136 - OR's contribution re the New Covenant of Jer 31 as seen in Matt 26 and Heb 8,9.

You've not dealt with these texts or our responses at all. Since you are the OP, I assume that you wanted to discuss this issue, so actually discuss it. Unless you wanted to just stir up conflict, which if that's the case, I guess you've achieved your goal.

 

[prophet]

It seems your basis of this understanding is the idea that Revelation is chronological, from beginning to end. Am I correct in this? However, notice this: Revelation can't be completely chronological, otherwise you have the world ending and Christ retuning, in wrath, 3 times. (Revelation 6, 11, and 19)

I admit I am not yet persuaded one way or another on how to interpret the resurrection/1,000 year language at in Revelation 20. I grew up pre-trib/pre-mill, but am now historic pre-mill (post-trib), but I see Amill as being highly likely. In fact, if it weren't for Rev 20, I'd be Amill.



Way to beat the crap out of that strawman!

If we don't agree with hyper-dispnsationalism, we're "replacement theologians," preterists, and we spiritualize scripture to ignore God's favoritism of Jews (even though Peter said "Now I really understand that God doesn't show favoritism"). Fascinating!

Beameup, please, seriously deal with the texts that I and OR have presented. I'll give you the link to make it easy for you:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2105584&postcount=38 - My contribution re Hebrews 8 and 9
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2106237&postcount=125 - My contribution re Christ's present Reign at the Father's right hand
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2106352&postcount=136 - OR's contribution re the New Covenant of Jer 31 as seen in Matt 26 and Heb 8,9.

You've not dealt with these texts or our responses at all. Since you are the OP, I assume that you wanted to discuss this issue, so actually discuss it. Unless you wanted to just stir up conflict, which if that's the case, I guess you've achieved your goal.

The Rev. repeats its chronology.

It tells the same story , with a different view, again.

This is key to understanding that there is only one resurrection of the living.

Chapter 12 begins the second account.

Rev 15:1-4
Chapter 15
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy:for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Here, in 15, we have the Saints who went through the Great Trib, in Heaven, At the beginning of the Wrath, 7 Angels and all. This is parallel to chapter 7-10

Rev 7:14
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


So, no, bottom line, there are several chronologies in Rev., and we must rightly divide.

 

[RLBosley]

The Rev. repeats its chronology.

It tells the same story , with a different view, again.

This is key to understanding that there is only one resurrection of the living.

Chapter 12 begins the second account.

Rev 15:1-4
Chapter 15
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy:for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Here, in 15, we have the Saints who went through the Great Trib, in Heaven, At the beginning of the Wrath, 7 Angels and all. This is parallel to chapter 7-10

Rev 7:14
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


So, no, bottom line, there are several chronologies in Rev., and we must rightly divide.

I agree, especially with what I bolded above.

I would say that there are at least 3 times we see the return of Christ and judgment, Rev 6, Rev 11, and Rev 19-20. I guess I misunderstood your post. Apologies.

 

[prophet]

I agree, especially with what I bolded above.

I would say that there are at least 3 times we see the return of Christ and judgment, Rev 6, Rev 11, and Rev 19-20. I guess I misunderstood your post. Apologies.

I was referring to the chronology in ICorinthians.

 

[RLBosley]

I was referring to the chronology in ICorinthians.

Ah so you were. That'll teach me to post in the morning without my coffee. :laugh:

My bad.

 

[prophet]

Ah so you were. That'll teach me to post in the morning without my coffee. :laugh:

My bad.

It really bears repeating.

1Co 15:20-24
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Here is the chronology:

23 But every man in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

It is by no means an exhaustive list of the events inbetween Christ's Res. and His coming Kingdom, but the events are in order...verse 23 even uses the word.

All who are Christ's, are resurrected at once.

Don't tell me saved Jews don't belong to Messiah.
Don't tell me the Church isn't "in Christ".

They who are Christ's , the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, regardless of their fleshly genealogy, will all be resurrected together, before He sets up His coming Kingdom.

 

[RLBosley]

It really bears repeating.

1Co 15:20-24
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Here is the chronology:

23 But every man in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

It is by no means an exhaustive list of the events inbetween Christ's Res. and His coming Kingdom, but the events are in order...verse 23 even uses the word.

All who are Christ's, are resurrected at once.

Don't tell me saved Jews don't belong to Messiah.
Don't tell me the Church isn't "in Christ".

They who are Christ's , the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, regardless of their fleshly genealogy, will all be resurrected together, before He sets up His coming Kingdom.

Yes. Amen.

:thumbsup:

 

[OldRegular]

I agree, especially with what I bolded above.

I would say that there are at least 3 times we see the return of Christ and judgment, Rev 6, Rev 11, and Rev 19-20. I guess I misunderstood your post. Apologies.

I fully agree that Revelation is not chronological. There are a number of writers who see the seven seals, trumpets, and bowls or vials, as seven pictures leading to the return of Jesus Christ. The New Geneva Bible, now the Reformation Bible, actually lists seven such pictures and at this time I agree, especially since the number seven plays such a dominant role in the Book of Revelation. Hendricksen and Kistemaker also list seven but with a somewhat different arrangement.

Anyhow attempting to interpret the Book of Revelation as a chronological record leads to nothing but confusion.

 

[beameup]

Who preached Christ to the 144,000 during the Grrreat Tribulation since the Church is gone?

Who preached Christ to Paul on the road to Damascus in Acts 9?