The Dead Will Hear the Voice of the Son of God - John 5:25

[SavedByGrace]

The Dead Will Hear the Voice of the Son of God - John 5:25

These words are spoken by Jesus Christ, to the Jews who wanted to stone Him to death, for, not only working on the Sabbath Day; but, for also calling the Father His OWN, in a very Unique and Personal way.

The passage can be seen, especially from verse 16, where we read of the Jews being enraged by Jesus’ actions and words, and Jesus’ conversation with them.

There is no indication in this chapter, that any of these Jews ever believed on Jesus as The Messiah, and Saviour.

The words in verse 24 and 25, are also directly addressed to these wicked Jews:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live”

It is very clear to those who are interested in what the Bible ACTUALLY teaches, that here, Jesus is saying that even these Jews, who wanted to murder Him, had the ABILITY to HEAR the Gospel Message for their salvation! This is AGAINST the FANCIFUL THEORY of the so called “Reformed”, who say that God has only made it possible for the “elect”, to HEAR the Gospel! Jesus Himself calls out their UNBIBLICAL NONSENSE!

Note, that even though ALL the spiritual dead with indeed be able to HEAR, it is ONLY those from these who actually HEAR, as in OBEY and ACCEPT what Jesus is saying, who will be saved!

Jesus goes on to tell these same Jews:

“But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life” (38-40)

Some important points made here by Jesus. Firstly, it is clear that those who Jesus is speaking to, these Jews, were in no way “saved”, as “His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe”. Secondly, these same Jews, Jesus says, were searching the Scriptures to find eternal life, so they were SEEKERS. Thirdly, they were SEEING in the wrong place! Because the very Scriptures that these were SEARCHING for eternal life, Speak of Jesus Christ. Fourthly, these Jews were UNWILLING to go to Jesus Christ, so that they could also have eternal life. The Greek here cannot be taken to mean, “they could not” come to Jesus, because God had not ENABLED them to, as some would distort!

In fact, in verse 34, Jesus tells these same Jews, “Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved”. Jesus clearly WISHED that they would get saved, as He was speaking to them for this very purpose.

It is GROSS ERROR for anyone to teach, that only the “elect” are ABLE to hear the Gospel for their salvation, and the rest are spiritually damned. Jesus Himself destroys this HERSEY!

 

[canadyjd]

John 10:26-27

Jesus told these same folks “You do not believe because you are not of My sheep…. My sheep hear My voice and follow Me….”

Notice Jesus does NOT say they are not His sheep because they do not believe. He says they do not believe BECAUSE they are not His sheep.

I do not expect to convince you, but it is sad you call folks heretics that believe the words of our Lord Jesus.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

John 10:26-27

Jesus told these same folks “You do not believe because you are not of My sheep…. My sheep hear My voice and follow Me….”

Notice Jesus does NOT say they are not His sheep because they do not believe. He says they do not believe BECAUSE they are not His sheep.

I do not expect to convince you, but it is sad you call folks heretics that believe the words of our Lord Jesus.

peace to you

as usual, only use the texts that say what you believe, and ignore the rest of Scriptures!

Jesus is talking about those who are already His sheep, that is, already born again. these will follow Him!

You are TWISTING what the Bible clearly says. And, as usual, cannot deal with the OP, where Jesus tells that Jews who wanted to murder him, that they also had the God-given ability to ACCEPT, or REJECT Him and His salvation! Now, TRY and prove this is not correct!

 

[Alan Gross]

The verses in red are in their order going down
and other reference verses thrown in, here and there,
are in black numbers, "5:25b", etc.

John 5:5; "And a certain man was there,
which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.

6; "When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now
a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?

7; "The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man,
when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool:
but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.

8; "Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

9; "And immediately the man was made whole,
and took up his bed, and walked:

14; "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him,
Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more,
lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 5:17; "But Jesus answered them,
My Father Worketh hitherto,
and I Work."

JESUS' "WORK" IS THAT JESUS IS THE SAVIOR
WHO QUICKENS SPIRITUALLY DEAD, LOST SOULS,
TO EVERLASTING, ETERNAL LIFE.

John 5:21; "For as the Father Raiseth up the dead,
and Quickeneth them;
even so the Son Quickeneth whom He Will."

5:22; "For the Father judgeth no man,
but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 5:24; "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My Word,
and believeth on Him that Sent Me, hath Everlasting Life,
and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death unto life."

5:25 a,b,c; "Verily, verily, I say unto you,
The hour is coming, and now is,
when the dead shall hear the Voice of the Son of God:"

As can be seen in a few verses down below, in vs 5:28c;
"all that are in the graves shall Hear His Voice.")

When those in the grave who died as saved souls
"hear the Voice of The Son of God", here in 5:25c,
they will be Resurrected,
and as here in 5:25d; "they that hear shall live."

Just as Jesus' Voice was heard by "The impotent man",
to heal him, in vs 7,
when; "Jesus saith unto him, Rise,
take up thy bed, and walk," in vs 8,

The Triune Godhead will raise the dead from the graves.

As again from 5:21a,b; "For as the Father Raiseth Up the dead,"
(FROM THE GRAVE)

"and Quickeneth them;"
(RESURRECTS THEM TO PHYSICAL LIFE, AGAIN)

The Repetition of John 5:24 in John 5:25,
is in a more definite form, with a cheering addition:
John 5:24 says that whoever hears and believes God has Eternal Life;
John 5:25 states some already "that hear" now and are already saved,

seen here in 5:25d; "they that hear shall live."

Those who have already been saved,
because they heard Jesus' "Voice", as in 5:25c,
are those whom "The Son Quickeneth" 5:21c,
to "Everlasting Life", vs 5:24b;

because it was Jesus Will to save their soul,
as we see in 5:21c; "even so the Son Quickeneth whom He Will."

Then, back to 5:24a;
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My Word,"

(these are those "whom He Will" "Quickeneth", in vs 5:21c, above
that Jesus says He Gives the Spiritual Ability in The New Birth,
so that their soul is Enabled to "heareth My word",

will be those in 5:24b who,
"believeth on Him that sent Me, hath Everlasting Life,"

because "the Son Quickeneth" them to "Everlasting Life",
when Jesus Gave "whom He Will" vs 5:24a, the Spiritual Ability
so they "heareth My word", "the Voice of the Son of God" in 5:25c,

whether Jesus uses His Voice to Heal someone,
as with "The impotent man", in vs 7,

or to save their soul, Spiritually, as here in 5:24b;
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word,
and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath Everlasting Life,"

or when He raises them from the grave,
after they were physically dead,
as you can see a few verses down, in vs 5:28c;
"all that are in the graves shall Hear His Voice.")

5:24c; "and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from" (Spiritual) "death
unto" (Spiritual) "life" (Eternal).

THOSE WHO NOW ALREADY HEAR AND ARE SAVED
WILL LIVE AGAIN, PHYSICALLY, IF THEY DIE,

BECAUSE THEN:

AT THE TIME OF THE RESURRECTION
"they that" (SAVINGLY) "hear" (NOW) "shall live" (AGAIN PHYSICALLY)
WHEN THE DEAD IN THE GRAVES WILL HEAR JESUS' VOICE.

Seen a couple of verses down, in vs 5:28c;
"all that are in the graves shall Hear His Voice."

 

[Alan Gross]

John 5:26; "For as the Father hath Life in Himself;
so hath He Given to the Son to have Life in Himself;

27; "And hath Given Him Authority to Execute Judgment also,
because He is the Son of man.

See: 5:22; "For the Father Judgeth no man,
but hath Committed all Judgment unto the Son:"

WHEN WILL JESUS EXECUTE THIS JUDGMENT, in 5:27 & 5:22?

28; "Marvel not at this: for The Hour is Coming,
in the which all that are in the graves shall Hear His Voice,"

29; "And shall Come Forth;
they that have done good, unto the Resurrection of Life;

and they that have done evil, unto the Resurrection of Damnation.

34; "But I receive not testimony from man:
but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

However, unless Jesus chose "whom He Will" to "Quickeneth"
to "Everlasting Life", THEY WILL NOT COME TO HIM
THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIFE BECAUSE IT IS NOT IN THEIR WILL.

AS JESUS SAID HIMSELF:
40; "And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have Life.

AND JESUS SAID HE KNEW THEM
AND THEY DID NOT HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD IN THEM,

42; "But I know you, that ye have not the Love of God in you.

WHICH WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BE IN THEM, BY GOD'S SPIRIT,
FOR THEM, SPIRITUALLY, TO SAVINGLY BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID,
34; "But I receive not testimony from man:
but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

JESUS KNEW:
37; "And the Father Himself, which hath Sent Me,
hath Borne Witness of Me.

"Ye have neither heard His Voice at any time nor seen His Shape.

38; "And ye have not His Word abiding in you:
for Whom He hath Sent, Him ye believe not.

40; "And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have Life.

42; "But I know you, that ye have not the Love of God in you.

JESUS KNEW THEY DID NOT BELIEVE
WHAT MOSES WROTE CONCERNING JESUS BEING THE SAVIOR:
45; "Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46; "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed Me:
for he wrote of Me."

47; "But if ye believe not his writings,
how shall ye believe My words?"

From John 5:16; THESE LOST JEWS WHERE OUT SOLELY TO:
"persecute Jesus, and sought to slay Him",

AS UNBELIEVERS OF WHOM JESUS SAID, in John 5:40;
"YE WILL NOT COME TO ME THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE".

THE ONLY "WILL" THEY HAD IN POSSESSION OF THEIR BEING
AS LOST SOULS, WAS THEIR CARNAL "WILL" OF THEIR FLESH,
WHICH WAS SPIRITUALLY DEAD TO RELATE TO GOD WHO IS SPIRIT.

THEREFORE, JESUS CORRECTLY SAID TO THEM, AS PROPHECY:
"YE WILL NOT". SINCE THE ONLY POWER THEY HAD IN THEIR "WILL"
WAS TO NOT "WILL" TO COME TO JESUS AND SO, THEY DID NOT.

JESUS SIMPLY TOLD THEM THAT THEY WERE LOST:

39; "Search the Scriptures;
for in them ye think ye have Eternal Life:
and they are they which Testify of Me.

Jesus is saying that even these Jews, who wanted to murder Him,
had the ABILITY to HEAR the Gospel Message for their salvation!

I don't see that in John 5.

Note, that even though
ALL the spiritual dead with indeed be able to HEAR

I don't see that in there, in John 5.

Fourthly, these Jews were UNWILLING to go to Jesus Christ, so that they could also have eternal life. The Greek here cannot be taken to mean, “they could not” come to Jesus, because God had not ENABLED them to

Do you really want to say that you either form your doctrine
or dismantle an idea, dependent on,
"The Greek here cannot be taken to mean, “they could not” come to Jesus,
because God had not ENABLED them to."

Why on earth would the Greek be talking about what they "could not" do,
when Jesus is Prophecying to them the message about what they "will not" do?

"Could not" is sufficiently handled elsewhere, by the word, "dead",
which btw, means, "dead", in Greek and English,
and in every other Realm of Spiritual Reality as a Fact of God.

“οὐ”: negative particle meaning “not”.

“θέλετε”: second person, plural, present, active,
indicative verb meaning “you will”.

“ἐλθεῖν”: aorist, active, infinitive verb meaning “to come”.

“πρός” taking the accusative for its object word and meaning “to” or “toward”.

“με”: first person, personal, singular, accusative pronoun meaning “me”.

The true function of Scripture is expressed in the words,
ἐκεῖναί εἰσιν αἱ μαρτυροῦσαι περὶ ἐμοῦ: they do not give life,
as the Jews thought; they lead to the life-giver.

God speaks in Scripture with a definite purpose in view,
to testify to Christ; if Scripture does that, it does all.

However, they would “οὐ”: negative particle meaning “not”,
because A.) they had not been Quickened to Spiritual Life by Jesus
and B.) they could not certainly "Quicken their soul to Everlasting Life",
from whence, it originated, "dead in trespasses and sins".

No more than "evolution" can claim "Life comes from a Rock".

I say these things that you may be saved

However, unless Jesus chose "whom He Will" to "Quickeneth"
to "Everlasting Life", THEY WILL NOT COME TO HIM
THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIFE BECAUSE IT IS NOT IN THEIR WILL.

John 3:19; "And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil."

AS JESUS SAID HIMSELF:
40; "And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have Life.

 

[Alan Gross]

Jesus clearly WISHED that they would get saved,
as He was speaking to them for this very purpose.

Jesus clearly what?

(You might as well have pulled out the words, "explicitly stated",
like some others do. Whew.)

I don't see "WISHED" in there, in John 5, in capital letters, or not.

Two astronomical doozies:

1.) Jesus clearly WISHED that they would get saved,

2.) He was speaking to them for this very purpose.

How big is it possible for letters to be written in a font?

Five thousand feet high, maybe?

"WRONG" needs to be in at least that.

"Exegesis is the process of careful,
analytical study of biblical passages undertaken
in order to produce useful interpretations of those passages."

"Exegesis tries to listen to the text,
and let meaning come from the text itself
in its original, historical context.

"Eisegesis brings meaning to the text
and does not concern itself
with the original historical context of a biblical passage."

Old Sage Advise; "concern yourself".

Listen to what the Jazz is saying to you, man...

It is GROSS ERROR for anyone to teach, that only the “elect” are ABLE to hear the Gospel for their salvation, and the rest are spiritually damned.

You're taking my name in vain.

Repent.

"The hearing ear, and the seeing eye,
the LORD hath made even both of them." Proverbs 20:12.

God is the One Who How He Saves Souls and From What Condition.

"Sin" is all that a lost soul has to recommend themselves to Him
AND GOD HATES SIN. YOU MIGHT STUDY UP ON IT.

IT'S THE BIBLE, YOU KNOW.

"How God Himself views "sin" may be learned
from the various similitudes used by the Holy Spirit
to set forth its ugliness and loathsomeness.

"GOD has compared SIN with the greatest deformities
and the most filthy and repulsive objects
to be met with in this world.

"Sin is likened to:

• the scum of a seething pot in which is a detestable carcass (Ezek. 24:10-12)
• the blood and pollution of a newborn child, before it is washed and clothed (Ezek. 16:4, 6)
• a dead and rotting body (Rom. 7:24)
• the noisome stench and poisonous fumes which issue from the mouth of an open sepulcher (Rom. 3:13)
• the lusts of the devil (John 8:44)
• putrefying sores (Isa. 1:5-6)
• a menstruous cloth (Isa. 3:22; Lam. 1:17)
• a canker, or gangrene (II Tim. 2:17)
• the dung of filthy creatures (Phil. 3:8)
• the vomit of a dog and the wallowing of a sow in the stinking mire (II Peter 2:22)

"Such comparisons show us something of the vileness
and horribleness of sin, yet in reality it is beyond all comparison."


ref: ("SIN" is a BIG subject, too).
The Total Depravity of Man.
by A. W. Pink.


Table of Contents:

Chapter 1 - Introduction

Chapter 2 - Origin

Chapter 3 - Imputation

Chapter 4 - Consequences

Chapter 5 - Transmission

Chapter 6 - Nature

Chapter 7 - Impact

Chapter 8 - Enormity

Chapter 9 - Extent

Chapter 10 - Ramifications

Chapter 11 - Evidences

Chapter 12 - Corollaries

Chapter 13 - Remedy

Chapter 14 - Summary

 

[SavedByGrace]

John 5:26; "For as the Father hath Life in Himself;
so hath He Given to the Son to have Life in Himself;

27; "And hath Given Him Authority to Execute Judgment also,
because He is the Son of man.

See: 5:22; "For the Father Judgeth no man,
but hath Committed all Judgment unto the Son:"

WHEN WILL JESUS EXECUTE THIS JUDGMENT, in 5:27 & 5:22?

28; "Marvel not at this: for The Hour is Coming,
in the which all that are in the graves shall Hear His Voice,"

29; "And shall Come Forth;
they that have done good, unto the Resurrection of Life;

and they that have done evil, unto the Resurrection of Damnation.

34; "But I receive not testimony from man:
but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

However, unless Jesus chose "whom He Will" to "Quickeneth"
to "Everlasting Life", THEY WILL NOT COME TO HIM
THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIFE BECAUSE IT IS NOT IN THEIR WILL.

AS JESUS SAID HIMSELF:
40; "And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have Life.

AND JESUS SAID HE KNEW THEM
AND THEY DID NOT HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD IN THEM,


42; "But I know you, that ye have not the Love of God in you.

WHICH WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BE IN THEM, BY GOD'S SPIRIT,
FOR THEM, SPIRITUALLY, TO SAVINGLY BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID,
34; "But I receive not testimony from man:
but these things I say, that ye might be saved.


JESUS KNEW:
37; "And the Father Himself, which hath Sent Me,
hath Borne Witness of Me.

"Ye have neither heard His Voice at any time nor seen His Shape.

38; "And ye have not His Word abiding in you:
for Whom He hath Sent, Him ye believe not.


40; "And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have Life.

42; "But I know you, that ye have not the Love of God in you.

JESUS KNEW THEY DID NOT BELIEVE
WHAT MOSES WROTE CONCERNING JESUS BEING THE SAVIOR:
45; "Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46; "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed Me:
for he wrote of Me."

47; "But if ye believe not his writings,
how shall ye believe My words?"

From John 5:16; THESE LOST JEWS WHERE OUT SOLELY TO:
"persecute Jesus, and sought to slay Him",

AS UNBELIEVERS OF WHOM JESUS SAID, in John 5:40;
"YE WILL NOT COME TO ME THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE".

THE ONLY "WILL" THEY HAD IN POSSESSION OF THEIR BEING
AS LOST SOULS, WAS THEIR CARNAL "WILL" OF THEIR FLESH,
WHICH WAS SPIRITUALLY DEAD TO RELATE TO GOD WHO IS SPIRIT.

THEREFORE, JESUS CORRECTLY SAID TO THEM, AS PROPHECY:
"YE WILL NOT". SINCE THE ONLY POWER THEY HAD IN THEIR "WILL"
WAS TO NOT "WILL" TO COME TO JESUS AND SO, THEY DID NOT.

JESUS SIMPLY TOLD THEM THAT THEY WERE LOST:

39; "Search the Scriptures;
for in them ye think ye have Eternal Life:
and they are they which Testify of Me.



I don't see that in John 5.



I don't see that in there, in John 5.



“οὐ”: negative particle meaning “not”.

“θέλετε”: second person, plural, present, active,
indicative verb meaning “you will”.

“ἐλθεῖν”: aorist, active, infinitive verb meaning “to come”.

“πρός” taking the accusative for its object word and meaning “to” or “toward”.

“με”: first person, personal, singular, accusative pronoun meaning “me”.

The true function of Scripture is expressed in the words,
ἐκεῖναί εἰσιν αἱ μαρτυροῦσαι περὶ ἐμοῦ: they do not give life,
as the Jews thought; they lead to the life-giver.

God speaks in Scripture with a definite purpose in view,
to testify to Christ; if Scripture does that, it does all.

However, they would “οὐ”: negative particle meaning “not”,
because A.) they had not been Quickened to Spiritual Life by Jesus
and B.) they could not certainly "Quicken their soul to Everlasting Life",
from whence, it originated, "dead in trespasses and sins".

No more than "evolution" can claim "Life comes from a Rock".



However, unless Jesus chose "whom He Will" to "Quickeneth"
to "Everlasting Life", THEY WILL NOT COME TO HIM
THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIFE BECAUSE IT IS NOT IN THEIR WILL.

John 3:19; "And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil."

AS JESUS SAID HIMSELF:
40; "And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have Life.

Jesus says, "You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life"

This means, 1, God had not made them so, that they had a FREE WILL, to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ. And, 2, that eternal life was also OFFERED and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews, who were NOT "the elect"!

 

[canadyjd]

as usual, only use the texts that say what you believe, and ignore the rest of Scriptures!

Jesus is talking about those who are already His sheep, that is, already born again. these will follow Him!

You are TWISTING what the Bible clearly says. And, as usual, cannot deal with the OP, where Jesus tells that Jews who wanted to murder him, that they also had the God-given ability to ACCEPT, or REJECT Him and His salvation! Now, TRY and prove this is not correct!

Jesus is very clear in John 10. He calls His sheep by name, they hear His voice, THEN they follow Him.

Jesus calls His sheep by name. He already knows them before He calls them. It is a specific call to specific people… He calls them by NAME.

Jesus does NOT say He gives a general call to all the sheep and those that chose to follow Him become His sheep.

Concerning the OP, Jesus does NOT tell them they had the “ability” to accept or reject, only that they didn’t believe Him. He elaborates on the passage in John 5 when He tells them in John 10 WHY they don’t believe… BECAUSE they are not His sheep.

As far as “twisting scripture” and only using verses that support your view, I’d say you need to look into a mirror.

I have reconciled the passages from John 5 and John 10. You have not. You simply ignore John 10 and make baseless accusations of “twisting” scripture.

AS USUAL

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus is very clear in John 10. He calls His sheep by name, they hear His voice, THEN they follow Him.

Jesus calls His sheep by name. He already knows them before He calls them. It is a specific call to specific people… He calls them by NAME.

Jesus does NOT say He gives a general call to all the sheep and those that chose to follow Him become His sheep.

Concerning the OP, Jesus does NOT tell them they had the “ability” to accept or reject, only that they didn’t believe Him. He elaborates on the passage in John 5 when He tells them in John 10 WHY they don’t believe… BECAUSE they are not His sheep.

As far as “twisting scripture” and only using verses that support your view, I’d say you need to look into a mirror.

I have reconciled the passages from John 5 and John 10. You have not. You simply ignore John 10 and make baseless accusations of “twisting” scripture.

AS USUAL

peace to you

Can you not read?

Jesus tells them in chapter 5 that He wanted them to get saved, but they rejected Him and salvation!

No amount of TWISTING of the Bible can get around this FACT!

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is very clear from the responses from the so called "reformed", that they will totally ignore what Jesus Himself says as shown in the OP, and look around for passages, and then take them out of their intended context, to try and show, that what they believe, is what the Bible says!

It is VERY CLEAR from Jesus' own words, when speaking to the Jews who wanted to murder Him, for speaking the TRUTH.

In verse 34, Jesus says to them, " I don’t receive man’s testimony, but I say these things so that you may be saved"

And, in verse 40, "And you are not willing to come to Me so that you may have life"

WHAT can be more clear than this? Jesus says to these Jews, the reason He is even speaking to them, is that He wanted them to be saved! It is their own FREE WILL, that causes them to REJECT Jesus Christ and eternal life in Him!

Regardless of ones personal beliefs, which are very much "human", the eternal, Infallible, Inspired Word of God, is what really counts. Jesus in this passage in John 5, clearly shows His GREAT LOVE for these wicked and sinful Jews, because He reached out to them with His salvation!

 

[Silverhair]

Jesus is very clear in John 10. He calls His sheep by name, they hear His voice, THEN they follow Him.

Jesus calls His sheep by name. He already knows them before He calls them. It is a specific call to specific people… He calls them by NAME.

Jesus does NOT say He gives a general call to all the sheep and those that chose to follow Him become His sheep.

Concerning the OP, Jesus does NOT tell them they had the “ability” to accept or reject, only that they didn’t believe Him. He elaborates on the passage in John 5 when He tells them in John 10 WHY they don’t believe… BECAUSE they are not His sheep.

As far as “twisting scripture” and only using verses that support your view, I’d say you need to look into a mirror.

I have reconciled the passages from John 5 and John 10. You have not. You simply ignore John 10 and make baseless accusations of “twisting” scripture.

AS USUAL

peace to you

@canadyjd I agree that Christ knows His sheep and we see that the sheep are those that have trusted in Him.

Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me...has passed from death into life.

To “hear,” in this place, evidently denotes not the outward act of hearing, but to receive in a proper manner; to suffer it to make its proper impression on the mind; to obey. Either the dead in sins, or those that are in their graves. The words of the Saviour will apply to either. Barnes

Christ even tells us that the spiritually dead will be able to hear and respond, some will accept Him and some will reject Him but all can hear Him.

Joh 5:25 "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

While all can hear, it is only those that accept the message and receive the Savior that will pass from death into life.

 

[Alan Gross]

Jesus says, "You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life"

This means, 1, God had not made them so, that they had a FREE WILL, to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ. And, 2, that eternal life was also OFFERED and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews, who were NOT "the elect"!

"Eisegesis brings meaning to the text
and does not concern itself
with the original historical context of a biblical passage."

Jesus says, "You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life".

SO, Since Jesus DOES SAY,
"You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life",

THEN, UNLESS WE DECIDE
WE CAN ADD OUR OWN WORDS
INTO & ONTO THE PAGES OF THE BIBLE,
that: "brings meaning to the text, not concerning itself
with the original historical context of a biblical passage.

then we would have to PRETEND that Jesus 'meant'
WHAT THESE ADDED WORDS MEAN, (WHEN THEY DO NOT),

THE REASON IS, because what Jesus said was,
"You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life"
AND NOT SOMETHING ELSE.

AND IT IS NOT AS IF THERE IS 'SOME OTHER JESUS'
THAT WAS SAYING THESE WORDS IN PINK:

"This means,
1, "God had not made them so,
that they had a FREE WILL,
to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ"

"And, 2, "that eternal life was also OFFERED
and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews,
who were NOT "the elect"!

Jesus says, "You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life"

AND THEN YOU ATTRIBUTE TO JESUS
THE WORDS THAT YOU SAY HERE:

1, "God had not made them so,
that they had a FREE WILL,
to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ"

"And, 2, "that eternal life was also OFFERED
and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews,
who were NOT "the elect"!


DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE ATTRIBUTING
THE WORDS THAT YOU SAY HERE IN PINK,

"they had a FREE WILL, to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ

"eternal life was also OFFERED and POSSIBLE
to these murdering Jews, who were NOT "the elect",

TO BE WORDS OF JESUS?

AND THESE WORDS OF YOURS IN PINK
ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT JESUS MEANT?

THEN WHY DIDN'T JESUS SAY,
"they had a FREE WILL,
to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ,"
BY JUST SAYING THAT!?

INSTEAD OF IN SOME WAY, SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW
THAT NNE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT,
SHOWING WHERE JESUS' WORDS ARE SAYING THIS,

YOU ALSO TRY TO COME UP WITH AN EXTRA-BIBLICAL IDEAS,

THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING JESUS EVEN SAID
OR THAT JESUS SAID THAT WAS ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE OR SIMILAR TO:
"eternal life was also OFFERED and POSSIBLE
to these murdering Jews, who were NOT "the elect".

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus says, "You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life".

SO, Since Jesus DOES SAY,
"You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life",

THEN, UNLESS WE DECIDE
WE CAN ADD OUR OWN WORDS
INTO & ONTO THE PAGES OF THE BIBLE,
that: "brings meaning to the text, not concerning itself
with the original historical context of a biblical passage.

then we would have to PRETEND that Jesus 'meant'
WHAT THESE ADDED WORDS MEAN, (WHEN THEY DO NOT),

THE REASON IS, because what Jesus said was,
"You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life"
AND NOT SOMETHING ELSE.

AND IT IS NOT AS IF THERE IS 'SOME OTHER JESUS'
THAT WAS SAYING THESE WORDS IN PINK:

"This means,
1, "God had not made them so,
that they had a FREE WILL,
to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ"

"And, 2, "that eternal life was also OFFERED
and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews,
who were NOT "the elect"!

Jesus says, "You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life"

AND THEN YOU ATTRIBUTE TO JESUS
THE WORDS THAT YOU SAY HERE:

1, "God had not made them so,
that they had a FREE WILL,
to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ"

"And, 2, "that eternal life was also OFFERED
and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews,
who were NOT "the elect"!


DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE ATTRIBUTING
THE WORDS THAT YOU SAY HERE IN PINK,

"they had a FREE WILL, to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ

"eternal life was also OFFERED and POSSIBLE
to these murdering Jews, who were NOT "the elect",

TO BE WORDS OF JESUS?

AND THESE WORDS OF YOURS IN PINK
ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT JESUS MEANT?

THEN WHY DIDN'T JESUS SAY,
"they had a FREE WILL,
to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ,"
BY JUST SAYING THAT!?

INSTEAD OF IN SOME WAY, SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW
THAT NNE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT,
SHOWING WHERE JESUS' WORDS ARE SAYING THIS,

YOU ALSO TRY TO COME UP WITH AN EXTRA-BIBLICAL IDEAS,

THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING JESUS EVEN SAID
OR THAT JESUS SAID THAT WAS ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE OR SIMILAR TO:
"eternal life was also OFFERED and POSSIBLE
to these murdering Jews, who were NOT "the elect".

so what do you think that Jesus means when He says in verse 40, "And you are not willing to come to Me so that you may have life"

The Greek θέλω, used with the negative οὐ, means that these Jews CHOSE to REJECT eternal Life that is in Jesus Christ, as their Saviour. They REFUSED to ACCEPT this about Jesus Christ. This means that they had FREE WILL to either, ACCEPT, or REJECT what Jesus was saying here. Also, Jesus. words here and verse 34, where He clearly says why He was speaking to them, "but I say these things so that you may be saved". This is clear, that it was the intended DESIRE of Jesus Christ, that these Jews WOULD accept Him as their Saviour, and have eternal Life.

I cannot see how there can be any other interpretation of what Jesus says in this whole passage.

It is quite pointless to appeal to other passages, where Jesus says that "He came for His sheep", etc. This is indeed true, but, all sinners who REPENT of their sins and BELIEVE in the Gospel, as Mark 1:15 says, will indeed become His sheep. This is also clear in John 1:12, "But to all who did receive Him, who believed in His Name, He gave the right to become children of God". Sinners must RECEIVE Jesus Christ, by BELIEVING in Him, and ONLY then they have the RIGHT to become children of God. The Greek scholar, J H Thayer, defines λαμβάνω, "to receive what is offered; not to refuse or reject".

Salvation is OFFERED to the entire human race, and Jesus Christ has already Paid the Price by His Death on the cross, which also includes those like Judas, who are in eternal punishment. ALL have to either ACCEPT, or REJECT this OFFER.

I cannot see why this is a problem with the so called "reformed", as Jesus is clear on what He means?

 

[Alan Gross]

so what do you think that Jesus means when He says in verse 40,
"And you are not willing to come to Me so that you may have life"

It means that Jesus DID NOT WILL TO SAVE THEM,
OR THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED,

BECAUSE: "the Son Quickeneth whom He Will." John 5:24c.

AND THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE FOLLOWING:

There is no indication in this chapter, that any of these Jews
ever believed on Jesus as The Messiah, and Saviour.

Jesus DID NOT WILL TO SAVE THEM,
OR THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED,

BECAUSE: "the Son Quickeneth whom He Will." John 5:24c.

Can you not read?

Jesus tells them in chapter 5 that He wanted them to get saved,
but they rejected Him and salvation!

No amount of TWISTING of the Bible can get around this FACT!

I ASK YOU, "Can you not read?"

If, "Jesus tells them in chapter 5 that "He wanted them to get saved",

then, where is it? Where does it say, "He wanted them to get saved"?

Can you not read?

John Chapter 5,
DOES NOT HAVE Jesus saying, "He wanted them to get saved".

That is just a straightforward, out-and-out, bald-faced lie #1.

AND THE SAME GOES FOR YOUR NEXT QUOTE
AND TWO MORE straightforward, out-and-out, bald-faced lies
saying "Jesus clearly WISHED that they would get saved"
AND THAT WAS JESUS "very purpose" for speaking to them.

Lie #2.) "Jesus clearly WISHED that they would get saved,"
Lie #3.) "as He was speaking to them for this very purpose."

AND then ADD THE LIES IN YOUR QUOTE AFTER THAT ONE, TOO.

Lie #4.) "This means, 1, God had not made them so,
that they had a FREE WILL, to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ."

Lie #5.) "And, 2, that eternal life was also OFFERED
and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews, who were NOT "the elect"!"

If Jesus had "wanted or "WISHED" them to get saved",
Jesus would have "Quickened" WHOM HE WILLED, INSTANTLY.

BUT JESUS DID NOT "QUICKEN"
ANY OF THEM TO EVERLASTING LIFE.

AND? THAT MEANS that Jesus DID NOT WILL TO SAVE THEM,
OR THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED,

BECAUSE: "the Son Quickeneth whom He Will." John 5:24c.

No amount of TWISTING of the Bible can get around this FACT!

In fact, in verse 34, Jesus tells these same Jews,
“Yet I do not receive testimony from man,
but I say these things that you may be saved”.

Jesus clearly WISHED that they would get saved,
as He was speaking to them for this very purpose.

Jesus says, "You are UNWILLING to come to me for eternal life"

This means, 1, God had not made them so,
that they had a FREE WILL, to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ.

And, 2, that eternal life was also OFFERED
and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews,
who were NOT "the elect"!

TRY THIS OUT:

"Exegesis is the process of careful,
analytical study of biblical passages undertaken
in order to produce useful interpretations of those passages."

INSTEAD OF SO MUCH OF THIS GARBAGE:

they will totally ignore what Jesus Himself says

and look around for passages,
and then take them out of their intended context

AND to try and show,
that what they believe, is what the Bible says!

LIKE WHERE THERE ARE SO MANY WORDS
YOU HAVE TO ADD TO SHOW WHAT YOU SAY HERE:
"what you believe, is what the Bible says!" (??????)

OR YOU WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE ANYTHING TO TALK ABOUT.

BECAUSE ALL THOSE WORDS YOU MAKE UP
AND HAVE TO ADD IN ARE NOT IN THE BOOK.

WHY ARE YOU TALKING?

 

[SavedByGrace]

It means that Jesus DID NOT WILL TO SAVE THEM,
OR THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED,

BECAUSE: "the Son Quickeneth whom He Will." John 5:24c.

AND THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE FOLLOWING:


Jesus DID NOT WILL TO SAVE THEM,
OR THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED,

BECAUSE: "the Son Quickeneth whom He Will." John 5:24c.



I ASK YOU, "Can you not read?"

If, "Jesus tells them in chapter 5 that "He wanted them to get saved",

then, where is it? Where does it say, "He wanted them to get saved"?

Can you not read?

John Chapter 5,
DOES NOT HAVE Jesus saying, "He wanted them to get saved".

That is just a straightforward, out-and-out, bald-faced lie #1.

AND THE SAME GOES FOR YOUR NEXT QUOTE
AND TWO MORE straightforward, out-and-out, bald-faced lies
saying "Jesus clearly WISHED that they would get saved"
AND THAT WAS JESUS "very purpose" for speaking to them.

Lie #2.) "Jesus clearly WISHED that they would get saved,"
Lie #3.) "as He was speaking to them for this very purpose."

AND then ADD THE LIES IN YOUR QUOTE AFTER THAT ONE, TOO.

Lie #4.) "This means, 1, God had not made them so,
that they had a FREE WILL, to ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus Christ."

Lie #5.) "And, 2, that eternal life was also OFFERED
and POSSIBLE to these murdering Jews, who were NOT "the elect"!"

If Jesus had "wanted or "WISHED" them to get saved",
Jesus would have "Quickened" WHOM HE WILLED, INSTANTLY.

BUT JESUS DID NOT "QUICKEN"
ANY OF THEM TO EVERLASTING LIFE.

AND? THAT MEANS that Jesus DID NOT WILL TO SAVE THEM,
OR THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED,

BECAUSE: "the Son Quickeneth whom He Will." John 5:24c.

No amount of TWISTING of the Bible can get around this FACT!





TRY THIS OUT:


INSTEAD OF SO MUCH OF THIS GARBAGE:






LIKE WHERE THERE ARE SO MANY WORDS
YOU HAVE TO ADD TO SHOW WHAT YOU SAY HERE:
"what you believe, is what the Bible says!" (??????)

OR YOU WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE ANYTHING TO TALK ABOUT.

BECAUSE ALL THOSE WORDS YOU MAKE UP
AND HAVE TO ADD IN ARE NOT IN THE BOOK.

WHY ARE YOU TALKING?

You have totally disregarded what Jesus has very clearly said, that He most definitely wanted these Jews to be saved, but they choose not to

All your ramblings are completely useless

 

[Deacon]

... but it is sad you call folks heretics that believe the words of our Lord Jesus.

Yes, SavedByGrace typically quite quick at calling fellow believers heretics.
In this case however I think you are totally wrong.

Jesus Himself destroys this HERSEY!

I think he's saying that if you like chocolate you must be damned.

Rob

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, SavedByGrace typically quite quick at calling fellow believers heretics.
In this case however I think you are totally wrong.



I think he's saying that if you like chocolate you must be damned.

Rob

did you know there is a HUGE difference between a HERETIC, which means the person is NOT born again; and HERESY, which means the teaching is UNBIBLICAL?

 

[Deacon]

A person who teaches heresy is a heretic.
Heresy is generally considered to be a grave distortion or a heinous twisting of biblical truth.

Not every disagreement rises to the level of heresy.
Disagreements that do not concern the basic fundamentals of the faith do not rise to the level of heresy.

Using the term in an opening post is a flame.

Rob

 

[Alan Gross]

You have totally disregarded what Jesus has very clearly said,
that He most definitely wanted these Jews to be saved

I have totally disregarded what YOU CLAIM JESUS SAID,
WHEN JESUS CLEARLY DID NOT "WANT", "DESIRE", OR "WISH",
OR INDICATE: "that He most definitely wanted these Jews to be saved",

BECAUSE HE DIDN'T QUICKEN THEM TO EVERLASTING LIFE,

AND? IF JESUS HAD "WANTED", "DESIRED", OR "WISHED"
"that He most definitely wanted these Jews to be saved",

JESUS WOULD HAVE SIMPLY QUICKENED THEM TO ETERNAL LIFE
AND EXPRESSED HIS WILL BY SAVING THEIR SOULS,

BY GOING AGAINST THEIR WILL WHICH LOVE EVIL & WANTS TO KILL HIM.

"But these things ..." -

"Had you believed that
you would have believed in the Messiah and been saved."

Men are often dissatisfied
with the very evidence of the truth of religion
which they sought,
and on which they professed themselves willing to rely.

John 5 Barnes' Notes

Those Jews could:
"... be saved from that ruin and destruction,
that would come upon their nation, city, and temple,
for their rejection and disbelief of Him,"

BUT, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO GIVE UP LOOKING TO JOHN,
THE 'HONOR' IN THEIR ANCESTRY, AND EVEN TO THE SCRIPTURES,
AND TURNED IN REPENTENCE TO THE DIVINE PERSON OF JESUS.

"SALVATION" IS NOT IN A MAN LIKE JOHN, OR IN THEIR ANCESTRY,
AND "SALVATION" IS NOT IN THE WORDS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE,

THE SCRIPTURES ONLY DIRECT TO THE SUPERNATURAL DIVINE SAVIOR, JESUS.

"SALVATION" IS ONLY FOUND IN THE SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

AND IT WAS THAT PERSON JESUS THAT THEY WERE LOOKING TO MURDER.

John 5 Gill's Exposition

John 5:39
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have Eternal Life:
and they are they which Testify of Me."

A double Epicrisis [an enunciation added to a sentence,
to make the subject in hand the more clear]:

the one, καὶ ἐκεῖναι εἰσιν αἱ μαρτυροῦσαι περὶ ἐμοῦ,
approves of the search and trust of the Jews;

the other, καὶ οὐ θέλετε ἐλθεῖν πρός με, etc., shows their defect.
Ἐκεῖναι, those, subjoined to the αὐταῖς, in them,
has in some measure the force of removing to a distance.

Life is to be had more nigh at hand in Christ than in the Scriptures.

John 5:40
"And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life."
John 5:40. Ἐλθεῖν, "come")

"ye will not come to Me" in accordance
with what the Testimony of the Scriptures concerning Me demands.

REPENTENCE OF THEIR SINS AND FAITH IN THE WORK OF JESUS.

ἵνα ζωἠν ἔχητε, "that ye might have life")

What follows below is more severe:

"If ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins,"
ch. John 8:24.—V. g.

"But the Divine word had no abiding-place in their hearts,
as they refused to believe in Him Whom the Father had Sent,
according to His Ancient Promises.

"The voice of God, accompanied by the Power of the Holy Ghost,
thus made Effectual to the Conversion of sinners,
still proclaims that this is the Beloved Son,
in Whom the Father is Well Pleased.

"But when the hearts of men are full of pride, ambition,
and the love of the world,
there is no room for the word of God to abide in them."

John 5 Matthew Henry's Commentary

"If the Jews had accepted the testimony of John,
they would not now be cherishing angry and rebellious thought,
and have been so blinded to the truth and reality of things. John 5:34"

John 5 Pulpit Commentary

John 5:35
"He was a burning and a shining light:
and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light,"
whilst the light blazed, it shone; no longer.—ἀγαλλιασθῆναι, to exult)
without penitential mourning,
and without making any approach towards
Myself (JESUS THE SAVIOR).

"A choice word to express the thought.

They ought to have used,
(John's Message regarding JESUS AS SAVIOR)
not just enjoyed [made their chief joy], John.

"The Jews treated that which was but a Means (John & The Word),
as if it were an End (as a Way of Gaining the 'honor' of Salvation.)

"They are grossly (AND ETERNALLY) mistaken,
who seek in the word (AND SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES)
and seek in the ministers of God
only the gratification of their outward or inward senses,

and not Christ Himself,

[—who, when they are delighted with the gifts of ministers,
seem to themselves religious and devoted,
and yet do not follow their instruction.—V. g.]
= "Repeat and Believe."

—ἠθελήσατε πρὸς ὥραν, ye were "willing" for a season)

"Your willingness was not of long continuance.—φωτί, in the light)

"Ye were attracted by the splendor,
not by the blazing ardor of JOHN.—αὐτοῦ, his)

AND "without proceeding forward to JESUS, the Light, The Fountain of Joy:

HOWEVER, CONVERSELY:
Abraham SAW JESUS as The SAVOIR.

John 8:56, “Your Father Abraham rejoiced to see My day;
and he saw it, and was glad:”

ἠγαλλιάσατο.
...

All your ramblings are completely useless

On you, yes.

Aren't you the one that throws the Caps On and types ramblings out
WITHOUT A BREATH OF BIBLE TO GO ALONG WITH THEM?

TO TRY TO SAY SOME BUNCH OF STUFF THAT YOU BELIEVE IS REAL?

Watch how you do that all the time at the end portion of your posts
AND ARE DEPENDENT ON IT
AS THE ONLY PLACE TO FIND THE THINGS YOU SAY.

I'D BEEN LOOKING FOR A WORD FOR IT.

"COMPLETELY USELESS" IS GOOD ENOUGH. THANKS.

 

[SavedByGrace]

A person who teaches heresy is a heretic.
Heresy is generally considered to be a grave distortion or a heinous twisting of biblical truth.

Not every disagreement rises to the level of heresy.
Disagreements that do not concern the basic fundamentals of the faith do not rise to the level of heresy.

Using the term in an opening post is a flame.

Rob

The teaching that the Death of Jesus Christ is in some way "limited", is not only HERESY, but, BLASPHEMY!

The same is true for the teaching that God has preordained ALL things that come to pass, as this makes God the author of sin, regardless of the clever rubbish that the so called "reformed" try to explain it.

You simply cannot reinvent what terms mean.