The deity of Christ?

[Robert Snow]

Do Arminians deny the deity of Christ? This video clip says they do. I being a Calvinist have never said this myself. But what do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwk8vOcMG8k&feature=player_embedded#at=149

Congratulations! You have reached a new low in posting lies about non-Calvinists.

 

[Jarthur001]

I believe Paul made it fairly clear, whom HE Foreknow them did HE Predestinate.
That is kinda simple isn't it?
Romans 8: 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Looks very simple because God knew the choice you and I would make he predestinated us and called us. He provided Grace when Christ was "delivered him up for us all" All mankind.

Romans 6: 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Christ death paid the price for all sin PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE of all mankind. The issue is not now a sin issue it is a SON issue, have you received Christ as your Saviour or have you rejected Him. If you reject you are eternally seperated from God in the Lake of Fire. If you accept you take your place in the family of God, the place that was Predestined for you because of God's foreknowledge that you would choose Christ.
Very simple.

Hello revmwc,

Thanks for your reply. I do agree that it is simple. I would like to ask you a few things.

1st, in case you didn't know, I am a 5 point Calvinist. I just felt you should know that.

Now we all...that is all within Orthodox. This last year however, we have had posters on this board that say..."maybe God does not know everything." I kid not. But it is my guess you believe God does indeed know all things, even before they happen.

so...What do you think "foreknow" means in Romans 8: 29?

does it mean..... God knows before hand ABOUT the subject? In this case...what a person believes.???

 

[Jarthur001]

Congratulations! You have reached a new low in posting lies about non-Calvinists.

why do you say this?

 

[Amy.G]

I stopped it when I saw Steven Anderson. I felt like I was watching a propaganda film.

Who would take this video seriously?

 

[revmwc]

My dogs barking to go out so tell me how youd interpret John 6:44 & 1 Cor 2:14

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them

14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit draws all men to God some reject His drawing, they quench the Holy Spirits calling. They resist the calling of the Holy Spirit. Many pastors will tell you when God began calling them to the ministry they resisted the call, the same with mankind and resisting the call of the Spirit to salvation they reject it.

The natural man that is the unsaved man cannot understand the things of the Spirit why because they haven't been spiritually born. If you weren;t born into a specific culture then what they do in that culture is foolishness to you. If you were raised and taught the Calvanist view all other teaching is foolishness to you doesn't mean it is wrong it means you weren't taught that way. For an Arminian the Calvanist doctrine is wrong again doesn't make it wrong but that is not what they were taught.
When a person is born Spiritually they begin to understand the things of the Spirit why because now they can discern them through the Holy spirit who now indwels them and the Spiritual life they have from accepting Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

hope that we are not saying that IF one holds to Calvinism, is orthodox, while someone holding more to Free Will side is not...

believe in TULIP, but that does not make me a "better" Christian than someone who does not adhere to that belief

DO believe in area of HOW God chose to apply grace/savation, Reformed view superior to free Will Advocates BUT

Don't say I am orthodox and they are not, just that my view is "different" than theirs..

What is orthodox any ways, other than adhering to the core essentials of faith?
I am pre trib/pre mill Tulip Christian, who believes in spritual gifts fortoday...

Would that be considered being "orthodox?"

Adhering to core essentials of Christian faith is orthodox.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I stopped it when I saw Steven Anderson. I felt like I was watching a propaganda film.

Who would take this video seriously?

Who posted it? Mr Pink over here.

 

[Jarthur001]

I said some follow Calvin and Some Arminia, I failed to say Some hold to neither. Some hold onto the 3rd Pauline view of the bible. Paul teaching as most of the New Testament is and the other authors were clearly inspired by the Holy Spirit to write.

Yes I understand revmwc,

But do you understand that both Calvinism and Arminians say they hold to Paulineism?

Another way people say this is like..."I'm not Calvinist nor Arminian, but rather Biblicist"

Now that too is a rather silly statement. Both Calvinist and Arminians both study the Bible. A so called Biblicist is no better than the two. In fact, I have found that those that say such things are lacking in Bible study. Now this is not to say you are. You may know way more than me and every other Calvinist. I'm just telling you that ever single time a person says they are not Calvinist or Arminian, but rather a GREAT AND POWERFUL Biblicist they turnout to be a poorly studied Arminian.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Holy Spirit draws all men to God some reject His drawing, they quench the Holy Spirits calling. They resist the calling of the Holy Spirit. Many pastors will tell you when God began calling them to the ministry they resisted the call, the same with mankind and resisting the call of the Spirit to salvation they reject it.

The natural man that is the unsaved man cannot understand the things of the Spirit why because they haven't been spiritually born. If you weren;t born into a specific culture then what they do in that culture is foolishness to you. If you were raised and taught the Calvanist view all other teaching is foolishness to you doesn't mean it is wrong it means you weren't taught that way. For an Arminian the Calvanist doctrine is wrong again doesn't make it wrong but that is not what they were taught.
When a person is born Spiritually they begin to understand the things of the Spirit why because now they can discern them through the Holy spirit who now indwels them and the Spiritual life they have from accepting Christ.

Your playing both ends against the middle. I was not born into Arminian or Calvinist doctrines.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I believe Paul made it fairly clear, whom HE Foreknow them did HE Predestinate.
That is kinda simple isn't it?
Romans 8: 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Looks very simple because God knew the choice you and I would make he predestinated us and called us. He provided Grace when Christ was "delivered him up for us all" All mankind.

Romans 6: 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Christ death paid the price for all sin PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE of all mankind. The issue is not now a sin issue it is a SON issue, have you received Christ as your Saviour or have you rejected Him. If you reject you are eternally seperated from God in the Lake of Fire. If you accept you take your place in the family of God, the place that was Predestined for you because of God's foreknowledge that you would choose Christ.
Very simple.

It does seem pretty straight forward to me. I have received the Lord Jesus Christ. I have humbly submitted and obeyed the GOspel. Thanks for asking.

What I am not finding in the Scriptures is this teaching:

because God knew the choice you and I would make he predestinated us and called us

Specifically, I am not finding the text saying God foreknew the choice I would make. Rather, I am finding the text saying "For whom He did foreknow.."

It seems to me that we would be reading into the text to have it mean, "God knew the choice.."

If the english is correct to the Greek tense and pronoun (and I believe it is) then this telling me that God foreknew persons, not decisions. It is telling me that the people(persons) God knew, these same people He also predestined.

 

[Jarthur001]

Who posted it? Mr Pink over here.

aaaaaw yes pink it is..

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

aaaaaw yes pink it is..

Love a confident Guy in a Tuxedo! You go Pinkie, you go! LOL!

 

[revmwc]

Hello revmwc,

Thanks for your reply. I do agree that it is simple. I would like to ask you a few things.

1st, in case you didn't know, I am a 5 point Calvinist. I just felt you should know that.

Now we all...that is all within Orthodox. This last year however, we have had posters on this board that say..."maybe God does not know everything." I kid not. But it is my guess you believe God does indeed know all things, even before they happen.

so...What do you think "foreknow" means in Romans 8: 29?

does it mean..... God knows before hand ABOUT the subject? In this case...what a person believes.???

God knew us before the foudation of the earth, Christ said in Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. God knosw the exact number of hairs on your head therefore He knew the choices you would make. Christ made it clear that God knows everything.

Matthew 5: 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Psalms 139: 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

12Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
God knew DAvid before He was ever born and knew the choices he would make. 14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

17How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

18If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

OK revmwc :

Do you believe in Radical Depravity as it applies to the Doctrines Of Grace.....are all men by nature sinners in your view?

 

[go2church]

Hard to think of a Christian not believing in the divinity of Christ, that is kinda the whole point, isn't it? I'm aware some wish to claim the label Christian without the divinity, but John seems to me to have handled this in his epistles and gospel.

 

[revmwc]

OK revmwc :

Do you believe in Radical Depravity as it applies to the Doctrines Of Grace.....are all men by nature sinners in your view?

I believe in the total depravity of men. That all humanbeings are born with an OLd Sin Nature in them passed from father to children. That Christ had no Old Sin Nature because he had no earthly father. That He was truly God and truly man. Two natures in one person, the nature of God and the created Nature of man.
I also believe there are no degrees of punishment for the unbeliever. That of course is another subject.

 

[Jarthur001]

God knew us before the foudation of the earth, Christ said in Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. God knosw the exact number of hairs on your head therefore He knew the choices you would make. Christ made it clear that God knows everything.

Matthew 5: 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Psalms 139: 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

12Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
God knew DAvid before He was ever born and knew the choices he would make. 14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

17How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

18If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

Hello revmwc,

Those are very good verses that we both agree with. I'm sorry, but I must not have ben clear revmwc.

When Romans 8:29 says..."For those God foreknew he also predestined......"

What does "Foreknew" mean here?

Does it mean that God knows all things?

Or does it mean something else?

I don't want to put words in your month.

 

[Tom Butler]

Drive-by poster here.

Just wanted to drop in to ask, if our election is based on God's foreseeing my faith and my choice of Jesus as savior, didn't I elect myself?

Oh, so I don't ignore the OP, when an Arminian says he believes in the deity of Christ, I believe him.

 

[Crabtownboy]

The more I read about Calvin and the more I read posts by Calvinists on this BB the more convinced I am that Calvin was very wrong.

Now about the OP. I strongly believe in free-will ... the Calvinists have convinced me this is the correct belief. And about the deity of Christ this is what I say ....

"Christ was God in human form or earth."

In another thread I said this and ask a Calvinist if he believed this is a true statement. He responded with smoke and mirrors. I have yet to have a Calvinist agree that Christ was God in human for on earth. So, up to this time it seems to me that Calvinist have not agreed to Christ's deity. However I expect it was just that individuals standard non reply to questions. I believe, and I hope I am correct, that both camps acknowledge Christ's deity.

Blessings.

 

[Jarthur001]

The more I read about Calvin and the more I read posts by Calvinists on this BB the more convinced I am that Calvin was very wrong.

Now about the OP. I strongly believe in free-will ... the Calvinists have convinced me this is the correct belief. And about the deity of Christ this is what I say ....

"Christ was God in human form or earth."

In another thread I said this and ask a Calvinist if he believed this is a true statement. He responded with smoke and mirrors. I have yet to have a Calvinist agree that Christ was God in human for on earth. So, up to this time it seems to me that Calvinist have not agreed to Christ's deity. However I expect it was just that individuals standard non reply to questions. I believe, and I hope I am correct, that both camps acknowledge Christ's deity.

Blessings.

Hello crabtown,

Yes there are some Calvinist that do say some very stupid things. This guy is just one of them. Shame on him and shame on them that say stupid things.

But I think you will agree that non-Calvinist have people that say stupid things too.

Like...Calvinism is a false doctrine. Do you believe someone would say something like that?

Think about all the Calvinist...
Men like...writer Carl F. H. Henry
and the great preacher Charles Spurgeon
Thousands came into the Kingdom hearing Spurgeon preach.

And todays writer Don Carson. What a great writer. What a man of God.
And James Petigru Boyce......pastor, theologian, author, and seminary professor.

John F. MacArthur....think of all the people MacArthur has blessed.

Yet John is a Calvinist. so does that mean John is a false teacher?

and how about John Piper??
or ...Joshua Harris
or Wayne Grudem
or Albert Mohler???

Is it not silly that some call these men preachers of a false doctrine?


The great...Martyn Lloyd-Jones...calvinist


wait...how about...William Carey?? Founder of missions. He was a Calvinist and people are saying he preached false doctine. That is strange...right?

or how about David Livingstone....Calvinist.

or how about John Eliot,???...Calvinist

or how about Adoniram Judson....a Calvinist

or... the first missionary to the American Indians.... David Brainerd,...a Calvinist

Think of all the people they shared the gospel with...and some say these men preached a false doctrine. man oh man...how silly can you get?

and how about John Bunyan???, Think of the millions that have read The Pilgrim's Progress.

The Pilgrim's Progress is false doctrine??? really?

how about all the song writers that were Calvinist??

John Newton....Amazing Grace
Augustus Toplady,......Rock of Ages
William Cowper.......There Is a Fountain Filled with Blood
Joseph Hart, ........ Come, Ye Sinners

These men were false teachers?

Isaac Watts wrote 750 hymns
....This is the day the Lord has made.......
.....Alas! and did my Saviour bleed...........
When I survey the wondrous cross....
O God, Our Help in Ages Past......
Joy to the world! ...

Do you sing Isaac Watts songs? Is this a false doctrine? Isaac Watts was a Calvinist

Is that not silly?

don't forget J.C. Ryle and B.H. Carroll who also were Calvinist.

how about the great writer..William Hendriksen. Man...he has blessed me.

Is he a false teacher?

and...

Charles Hodge ...and AW Pink, ......Cornelius Van Til, ........Gerhardus Vos, ........B.B. Warfield, ...........Thomas Watson. ALL OF THESE MEN ARE FALSE TEACHERS??

[FONT=&quot] Jonathan Edwards...and "sinners in the hands ...."....all the thousands that have come to Christ after hearing Edwards....are not really saved??? Was he a false teacher?[/FONT]

How many believed in Christ after hearing[FONT=&quot]George Whitefield? Thousands? Were they saved? Was he too a False teacher? He was a Calvinist..right?

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]all the Puritans[/FONT] were false teachers?

wow...is that not crazy??