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The difference between a false teacher and a heretic

The Biblicist

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So you would consider those that teach KJV Onlyism, and those Independent Baptists that teach legalism not to be false teachers or teaching error?
Your question is far too general. There are saved people who believe that the KJV is the only version inspired by God. There are true Christians who are legalistic in various areas. If you mean justification by works then that is a different thing altogether as that is "another gospel."
 

evangelist6589

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Your question is far too general. There are saved people who believe that the KJV is the only version inspired by God. There are true Christians who are legalistic in various areas. If you mean justification by works then that is a different thing altogether as that is "another gospel."

True. KJVO/IFB affirm the essentials and are saved. Justification by works is something that Romanism teaches.
 
True. KJVO/IFB affirm the essentials and are saved. Justification by works is something that Romanism teaches.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 2:24 KJV
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24 ESV
 

The Biblicist

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Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 2:24 KJV
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24 ESV

Yes, I do see how a man is justified by his works BEFORE MEN "shew me.....I will shew you" but do you see how a man is justified WITHOUT WORKS BEFORE GOD (Rom. 4:1) and there is no contradiction between the two????
 
Yes, I do see how a man is justified by his works BEFORE MEN "shew me.....I will shew you" but do you see how a man is justified WITHOUT WORKS BEFORE GOD (Rom. 4:1) and there is no contradiction between the two????
I know ;) - look at my signature

I'm just throwing verses out of context because it seems like it's the cool thing to do:Cool
 

Yeshua1

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I'm not sure that intent plays so much into it (because of the warning about the responsibility of teaching). I believe that most false teachers do not believe what they are teaching is false (but they have, by their teachings, rejected truths of Scripture).
Peter and Jude seems though to indicate that those false teachers know the truth, but have chosen to deny them and to spread knowing lies. Not those such as Mormons/JW/Sda etc no doubt are blinded by satan and their own sin natures to their heritical views true, but peter and Jude seem to address those in spiritual leadership in such groups.
 

Yeshua1

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Unless you are speaking and writing under inspiration every teacher to some extent misrepresents or teaches things that are not true. However, for someone to be designated a false teacher their whole ministry is characterized around certain teachings that repudiate either essentials of salvation or essentials of service. Such a person is a heretic. While those basically sound in the faith can be guilty of teaching heresies but such errors do not repudiate essentials of salvation or service and their ministry is not characterized by those errors. Just my opinion.
Indeed, its not that we have an incomplete or misunderstanding of scripture truth, but basically an entire denial of scripture truth!
 

Yeshua1

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They misunderstand scrupture and what it really teaches,but are not into heresy yet, but if they claim Only KJV can be used by god to save, or one MUST liveas they say....
 

robycop3

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Partial Preterism is neither false teaching, nor heresy.

The most widespread false teaching among Baptists and Evangelicals is end times teaching centred on Israel, with rapture, tribulation, new temple, millennium, earthly kingdom, etc.

The simple truth of Scripture is that the present Gospel age is the millennium, and the next event of prophecy is Jesus' coming for resurrection and judgment, ushering in the NH&NE.

2 Peter 3
Note how he explains the millennium as the present Gospel age.

Edited to add:
The Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of prophecy. Many thousands of Jews, including priests and Pharisees accepted the Apostolic Gospel, so forming the Church which soon included Samaritans and Gentiles as one redeemed people of God.

If present day Jews and Israelis want the promises of God, repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Yes, partial preterism is COMPLETELY-false, as is ALL preterism. And here's why:

In Matthew 24, Jesus said,"29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



So it's obvious that neither the great trib nor Jesus' return have yet occurred. And just-as-obviously, there's been no "beast", mark of the beast, AOD, etc.yet, either. So, if the great trib has already occurred, Jesus is long-overdue!

Now, back to the theme of this thread: Both false teachers and heretics are great sinners, and, unless they repent & come to Jesus before they die, they're heaping more coals upon their own heads. if one has doubts about what a given person is preaching or teaching, the BIBLE is the one standard of measurement.If something being preached or taught disagrees with Scripture in any way, it's to be considered false.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
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So you would consider those that teach KJV Onlyism, and those Independent Baptists that teach legalism not to be false teachers or teaching error?

Why do you have a phobia of legalism - or is it your standards do not match that of others.
what are the other items of "legalism" that you detest - other than
alcoholic
and Keep in mind - that just because someone uses the KJV - does NOT mean they are KJ only.
 

Covenanter

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Yes, partial preterism is COMPLETELY-false, as is ALL preterism. And here's why:

In Matthew 24, Jesus said,"29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



So it's obvious that neither the great trib nor Jesus' return have yet occurred. And just-as-obviously, there's been no "beast", mark of the beast, AOD, etc.yet, either. So, if the great trib has already occurred, Jesus is long-overdue!
Read on in Matthew 24.
I used to interpret the Olivet prophecy that way, but Jesus continues:
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Jesus warned this generation - the generation that rejected him - many times. He is in the prophecy as a whole speaking about the destruction that took place within 40 years; within the lifetime of this generation. The actual destruction is not recorded in the inspired record. Hebrews reminds his readers that time is running out: Hebrews 3 & 4 & 10

Peter reminds his readers & warns about scoffers:
3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”
Would those scoffers be proved right, & die believing their scoffing was vindicated, as Jesus had not come? Or would the survivors of this generation see the events Jesus had prophesied in the last days before the destruction?

I think we need to seek to interpret the words of Jesus concerning his coming, which are echoed in Revelation 1:7 , to relate to the earth shattering events of AD 70 as a "coming" of Jesus veiled by clouds, but evident in the destruction.

I note you change the Son of Man coming to "Jesus' return." Jesus quotes Daniel 7, here & at his trial:
13 “I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,

And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
His coming is his ascension & complete vindication. Note also the way he speaks of coming in Revelation 2 & 3.
Jesus is with us, always but there are ways in which he comes. The dramatic language is similar to that used in the OT when God warns of coming judgment. See e.g. Isaiah 13, where God warns Babylon of its coming destruction at the hands of the Medes:
17 “Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them,
That destruction is recorded in Daniel 5.

Now, back to the theme of this thread: Both false teachers and heretics are great sinners, and, unless they repent & come to Jesus before they die, they're heaping more coals upon their own heads. if one has doubts about what a given person is preaching or teaching, the BIBLE is the one standard of measurement.If something being preached or taught disagrees with Scripture in any way, it's to be considered false.

Can false teachers & heretics preach Christ & the Gospel of salvation by repentance & faith? Teaching is often a matter of interpretation, where faithful preachers disagree - as on the interpretation of the Olivet prophecy, or infant baptism. Are you a false teacher, or am I?

Were the great preachers who preached Christ & saw revival, but who taught infant baptism, false teachers?

A heretic will deny the Gospel, as the Galatian Judaizers. Are those who see OT prophecy as yet to be fulfilled from a "Christian Zionist" position false teachers or even heretics? I think false teachers, & in some cases heretics, as Jesus & the NT writers teach the fulfilment of prophecy by the Lord Jesus Christ & his Gospel for all the world.
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Read on in Matthew 24.
I used to interpret the Olivet prophecy that way, but Jesus continues:
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Jesus warned this generation - the generation that rejected him - many times. He is in the prophecy as a whole speaking about the destruction that took place within 40 years; within the lifetime of this generation. The actual destruction is not recorded in the inspired record. Hebrews reminds his readers that time is running out: Hebrews 3 & 4 & 10

Peter reminds his readers & warns about scoffers:
3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”
Would those scoffers be proved right, & die believing their scoffing was vindicated, as Jesus had not come? Or would the survivors of this generation see the events Jesus had prophesied in the last days before the destruction?

I think we need to seek to interpret the words of Jesus concerning his coming, which are echoed in Revelation 1:7 , to relate to the earth shattering events of AD 70 as a "coming" of Jesus veiled by clouds, but evident in the destruction.

I note you change the Son of Man coming to "Jesus' return." Jesus quotes Daniel 7, here & at his trial:
13 “I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,

And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
His coming is his ascension & complete vindication. Note also the way he speaks of coming in Revelation 2 & 3.
Jesus is with us, always but there are ways in which he comes. The dramatic language is similar to that used in the OT when God warns of coming judgment. See e.g. Isaiah 13, where God warns Babylon of its coming destruction at the hands of the Medes:
17 “Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them,
That destruction is recorded in Daniel 5.



Can false teachers & heretics preach Christ & the Gospel of salvation by repentance & faith? Teaching is often a matter of interpretation, where faithful preachers disagree - as on the interpretation of the Olivet prophecy, or infant baptism. Are you a false teacher, or am I?

Were the great preachers who preached Christ & saw revival, but who taught infant baptism, false teachers?

A heretic will deny the Gospel, as the Galatian Judaizers. Are those who see OT prophecy as yet to be fulfilled from a "Christian Zionist" position false teachers or even heretics? I think false teachers, & in some cases heretics, as Jesus & the NT writers teach the fulfilment of prophecy by the Lord Jesus Christ & his Gospel for all the world.


Covenanter, there's a simple counter for all preterism - THE PROPHESIED EVENTS SIMPLY HAVEN'T YET HAPPENED!

They're completely absent from history!

I don't believe history woulda missed something as catastrophic as the death of all life in the seas, the burning-up of all green grass, or a rain of rocks, let alone a world ruler, whom Paul prophesied MUST come before the "day of the Lord" can happen.

Thus, preterism's claims go "POOF!" with a quick study of world history!

________________________________________________________________________________

I believe a false teacher is a heretic first, as not all heretix are teachers. Hard to separate one from another, as false teachers have false beliefs, same as other heretix. However, ALL are SINNERS in dire need of forgiveness by Jesus before their deaths.
 

Covenanter

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Covenanter, there's a simple counter for all preterism - THE PROPHESIED EVENTS SIMPLY HAVEN'T YET HAPPENED!
Why do you reject the plain words of the Lord Jesus Christ:
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Paul speaks of events concerning the temple:
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Events that take place before the judgment prophesied in 2 Thessalonians 1 include occupation of the temple. (2Thes. 2) The destruction of Jerusalem is the subject of Revelation 11.
Paul reminds the Thessalonians that he has given specific instructions about these things. He had previous told them concerning the destruction:
14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost. 1 Thes. 2

According to Revelation 1, the events prophesied would take pace shortly .... for the time is near... If we understand the prophesied events as relating to the destruction, the scale of the event is limited to Jerusalem & Judaea.

Differing interpretations of the prophetic Scriptures is not necessarily false teaching, nor heresy, but becomes so when basic doctrines are denied.
 

Don

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Would it be safe to say that a "false teacher" is one that teaches a way to heaven that does not include Christ, or teaches Christ plus something else?
 

robycop3

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Why do you reject the plain words of the Lord Jesus Christ:
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Paul speaks of events concerning the temple:
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Events that take place before the judgment prophesied in 2 Thessalonians 1 include occupation of the temple. (2Thes. 2) The destruction of Jerusalem is the subject of Revelation 11.
Paul reminds the Thessalonians that he has given specific instructions about these things. He had previous told them concerning the destruction:
14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost. 1 Thes. 2

According to Revelation 1, the events prophesied would take pace shortly .... for the time is near... If we understand the prophesied events as relating to the destruction, the scale of the event is limited to Jerusalem & Judaea.

Differing interpretations of the prophetic Scriptures is not necessarily false teaching, nor heresy, but becomes so when basic doctrines are denied.

Sir, those events have simply NOT YET HAPPENED. You cannot fill in the blanx between preterism and actual history with other events. No getting around it!

And I don't believe the death of all life in the seas is exactly a local event, and hustory would NOT have missed that, nor would it have missed a rain of rocks!

There are over a hundred prophecies in the Old testament about Jesus' first coming & death that cameta pass EXACTLY AS WRITTEN. there's no legitimate reason to believe the prophecies about His return won't cometa pass JUST-AS-LITERALLY.

The total lacka **PROOF** for the truth of preterist assertions consigns them to File 13. I believe those who teach preterism are among the false teachers this thread is about. They simply CANNOT PROVE a thing they teach in favor of preterism.
 

Covenanter

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Sir, those events have simply NOT YET HAPPENED. You cannot fill in the blanx between preterism and actual history with other events. No getting around it!
So was Jesus wrong when he declared:
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
 

Covenanter

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robycop3
Try reading the parallel passage in Luke 21 - it is absolutely clear Jesus is prophesying the AD 70 destruction.
 

robycop3

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Sir, I believe we're hijacking this thread by discussing preterism. It's my fault for first calling down preterism here. However, I wish to continue the discussion, as I'd liketa see if you can provide any **PROOF** for pret assertions. So, I'll start a new thread called "Preterism - True Or false?" and await your reply. (Or those of anyone else who wishes to chime in.)
 

Covenanter

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Sir, I believe we're hijacking this thread by discussing preterism. It's my fault for first calling down preterism here. However, I wish to continue the discussion, as I'd liketa see if you can provide any **PROOF** for pret assertions. So, I'll start a new thread called "Preterism - True Or false?" and await your reply. (Or those of anyone else who wishes to chime in.)

I responded to the OP -
False teaching
Those that teach one has to tithe 10% in order to be right with God= legalism
Those that teach partial preterism= Hank Hanagraaf who may be a false teacher in more than one area.
Those that teach the earth to be old.
 
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