The difference between unions and associations of Christian Baptists.

[Strannik]

Can you tell us what kind of Baptist unions you have in the United States in terms of strictness in social and theological life?
Do you have any Baptist unions in which Christian sisters are required to walk with their heads covered according to the command of the Apostle Paul?
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Are there any unions in which alcohol is prohibited and in general how do you treat it?
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Unions in which they deny participation in politics or service in law enforcement agencies?
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Well, and so on, and something like that...

 

[rlvaughn]

We have so many Baptist groups in the United States that it is complex to compare and contrast them. I have a list that I published years ago here -- Ministry and Music - Seeking the Old Paths: Another outline of Baptists in the US. It needs updating, but perhaps could be helpful. I might note, first, that in the U.S. our groups tend to prefer the words "association" or "convention" over "union".

Can you tell us what kind of Baptist unions you have in the United States in terms of strictness in social and theological life?

The groups vary from very conservative to very liberal. Some are loose, in that you could believe almost anything and still be a member. Others are strict, and would exclude churches which violate the articles of faith and/or constitution.

Do you have any Baptist unions in which Christian sisters are required to walk with their heads covered according to the command of the Apostle Paul?

I am not sure that any groups, as a group, require head coverings. There are some local churches which hold this belief and practice, but would be a small minority in the United States.

Are there any unions in which alcohol is prohibited and in general how do you treat it?

A lot of variation here. Some church covenants require abstinence from alcohol as a beverage, as well as abstaining from participation in any form of the sale or distribution of alcoholic beverages.

Unions in which they deny participation in politics or service in law enforcement agencies?

Not sure there are any that deny it, but perhaps some discourage it.

 

[robt.k.fall]

@Strannik, 30 years ago, I married an ethnic Russian girl from Tashkent. She and her family were/are EC-B. I have served as my local church's liaison to the EC-B community. Due to health reasons, I am no longer as active as I once was. Early on, we translated the Unregistered EC-B Statement of Faith. So, I am familiar with the EC-B doctrine.
I'll try to answer your questions.

1. Can you tell us what kind of Baptist unions you have in the United States in terms of strictness in social and theological life?
2. Do you have any Baptist unions in which Christian sisters are required to walk with their heads covered according to the command of the Apostle Paul.
3. Are there any unions in which alcohol is prohibited and in general how do you treat it?
4. Unions in which they deny participation in politics or service in law enforcement agencies?

SNIP

Please keep in mind, here in the United States the various Baptist organizations are not as tightly bound together as the Brotherhood of the EC-B. As one leader once said, "We Baptists are bound together by a rope of sand."

1. As Brother Vaughn wrote the various orgs are all over the map in terms of strictness in social and theological life.
2. Yes, though again as noted this is more or less left up to the individual and the local churches.
3. For the most part, American Baptists hold to a position of total abstention from the beverage use of alcohol. This is one of the reasons why Baptist churches use unfermented grape juice and not wine for the Lord's Supper commemoration.
4. The history of Anglo-American Baptists is different from that of the Continental and Slavic Baptists. So, we have few problems with participation in the political process or law enforcement.

 

[Strannik]

Thanks for the help. Do you know their websites or forums? Where can I find a link to them?

 

[rlvaughn]

Thanks for the help. Do you know their websites or forums? Where can I find a link to them?

The following thread gives links to many U.S. Baptist denominational groups. It is quite old, so you probably will find some of the links no longer work. Hope this helps.
Denominational Sites

 

[Strannik]

The following thread gives links to many U.S. Baptist denominational groups. It is quite old, so you probably will find some of the links no longer work. Hope this helps.
Denominational Sites

Thank you very much.

 

[Salty]

... For the most part, American Baptists hold to a position of total abstention from the beverage use of alcohol. This is one of the reasons why Baptist churches use unfermented grape juice and not wine for the Lord's Supper commemoration. ''...[/QUOTE]

Just as a point of clarification... you are talking about Baptists in America -- as opposed to the American Baptist Churches in the USA ( formerly know as the Northern Baptist Convention) In fact the ABC is more liberal in members consuming alcohol as a beverage.

 

[Strannik]

... For the most part, American Baptists hold to a position of total abstention from the beverage use of alcohol. This is one of the reasons why Baptist churches use unfermented grape juice and not wine for the Lord's Supper commemoration. ''...

Just as a point of clarification... you are talking about Baptists in America -- as opposed to the American Baptist Churches in the USA ( formerly know as the Northern Baptist Convention) In fact the ABC is more liberal in members consuming alcohol as a beverage.[/QUOTE]

How many Baptist unions, conventions, or associations do you have in total?

 

[rlvaughn]

How many Baptist unions, conventions, or associations do you have in total?

This may vary according to the criteria used to count them, but over fifty, in my opinion.

 

[Salty]

Here is a "family tree" there have been many more additions -but it is at least a start: Religion Family Trees | Baptist Family | Religious Groups | The Association of Religion Data Archives

and here is some additional info:
Baptist History Homepage, A Source for Original Baptist Documents


and here is a list of denomations - (click on the link for additional info)
Baptist| American Denominations | The Association of Religion Data Archives

 

[Strannik]

This may vary according to the criteria used to count them, but over fifty, in my opinion.

Wow. Why so much? have you tried to unite at least in the proximity of views?

 

[Strannik]

Here is a "family tree" there have been many more additions -but it is at least a start: Religion Family Trees | Baptist Family | Religious Groups | The Association of Religion Data Archives

and here is some additional info:
Baptist History Homepage, A Source for Original Baptist Documents


and here is a list of denomations - (click on the link for additional info)
Baptist| American Denominations | The Association of Religion Data Archives

I'm in shoke. Why so much??? It feels like a lot of people ran away just because of the color of the buttons on their jackets.

 

[rlvaughn]

Wow. Why so much? have you tried to unite at least in the proximity of views?

The very best categorization of Baptists in the U.S. has been done by Albert W. Wardin. He understands their historical, doctrinal, geographical, and other connections and divides them thusly. His most recent book is The Twelve Baptist Tribes in the USA: A Historical and Statistical Analysis, where he sorts them into twelve basic groupings:

1. Ecumenical Mainline
2. National (African-American)
3. Conservative Evangelical (Northern)
4. Fundamental (Northern)
5. Conservative Evangelical (Southern)
6. Fundamental (Southern)
7. Landmark
8. General/Free Will
9. Old-Time
10. Primitivists
11. Progressive Primitive
12. Neo-Calvinist

Within these twelve tribes, Wardin discusses 53 Baptist bodies, large and small -- from the (at that time, 2007) 42,723 churches of the Southern Baptist Convention to the historically significant General Six-Principle Baptists, at the time reduced to one church.

As an aside, and of possible interest to you, he is author of Gottfried F. Alf: Pioneer of the Baptist Movement in Poland. If I remember correctly, Brother Wardin is a descendant of Gottfried Alf.

 

[Salty]

A lot has to do with individual soul liberty
Here is a list of some of the differences:

Proper dress of attendees: Some think women must wear dresses, and men must wear suits and ties - women must have long hair and men must have short hair --------- others not so much

Music - some only use traditional musisc - other like modern christian music.

End times - Pre-Trib, post trib, mid trib, ect

Women preachers - some okay - others say no

Separation - some are very strict as to who they will fellowship with - others - will fellowship with just about anyone

Some do not believe in Sunday School - other is fine

Some prefer large churches - some only small churches

Some have strict standards for teachers and leaders - other have few standards.

Some say you cant dance, go to movies, or smoke - others it is ok

Some are King James Bible only (English speaking) others use many other versions

Some take the entire Bible literally - others not so much

Some believe in closed communion, others open communion

Some think we should be very involved in politics - others think we should not even vote.

Some think it is best fro a pastor to have a college degree as well as seminary - other -no need for higher education

Most believe in Eternal security, a few do not

Some think Baptism should be immediate - others think a person should wait a period of time.

This is just a short list - many many differences...

 

[Salty]

And this group of Baptists do not believe in a Hell!
Primitive Baptist Universalist - Wikipedia

 

[Strannik]

[QUOTE = "Salty, post: 2683484, member: 5656"] И эта группа баптистов не верит в ад!
Первобытный баптист-универсалист - Википедия [/ QUOTE]
Aren't they the ones who reject the Trinity?

 

[rlvaughn]

Aren't they the ones who reject the Trinity?

No, those are Unitarians. The Universalists believe that God's redemption is for every person who ever lives. No one will be lost. All will be saved.

Many Universalists are also Unitarians, but that is not the case of the Primitive Baptist Universalists.

 

[Strannik]

[QUOTE = "rlvaughn, post: 2683457, member: 969"] Самая лучшая категоризация баптистов в США была сделана Альбертом У. Уордином. Он понимает их исторические, доктринальные, географические и другие связи и таким образом разделяет их. Его последняя книга - Двенадцать баптистских племен в США: исторический и статистический анализ , где он разбивает их на двенадцать основных групп:

1. Вселенская магистраль
2. Национальный (афроамериканец)
3. Консервативная евангелическая (северная)
4. Фундаментальный (Северный)
5. Консервативная евангелическая (южная)
6. Фундаментальный (Южный)
7. Ориентир
8. Общие / Свободная воля
9. Старое время
10. Примитивисты
11. Прогрессивный примитив
12. Неокальвинист

В рамках этих двенадцати племен Вардин обсуждает 53 баптистских тела, больших и малых - от (на тот момент, 2007 г.) 42 723 церквей Южного баптистского конвента до исторически значимых баптистов с общими шестипринципными принципами, которые в то время сводились к одной церкви.

Кроме того, он является автором книги « Готфрид Ф. Альф: пионер баптистского движения в Польше», который может вас заинтересовать . Если я правильно помню, брат Вардин - потомок Готфрида Альфа. [/ QUOTE]

И какой смысл в постоянном разделении баптистов в Соединенных Штатах? Разве они не понимают, что все раздоры и расколы исходят от сатаны?
Мы могли бы объединиться хотя бы в непосредственной близости от конфессий.

 

[Strannik]

[QUOTE = "rlvaughn, post: 2683537, member: 969"] Нет, это унитарии. Универсалисты верят, что Божье искупление предназначено каждому, кто когда-либо живёт. Никто не погибнет. Все будет спасено.

Многие универсалисты также являются унитарианцами, но это не относится к примитивным баптистским универсалистам. [/ QUOTE]
The HORROR!!!! How everything is running. God forbid that such a thing appeared in Russia. God forbid.

 

[rlvaughn]

Hoping the translator got these right.

И какой смысл в постоянном разделении баптистов в Соединенных Штатах? And what's the point of a permanent division of Baptists in the United States?

To some extent moral and theological disagreements, and to some extent stubbornness and pride.

Разве они не понимают, что все раздоры и расколы исходят от сатаны? Don't they understand that all the divisions and divisions are coming the saints?

I expect coming persecution will bring us (at least conservative Baptists) closer together. We have had plenty of freedom to pursue our own devices.

Мы могли бы объединиться хотя бы в непосредственной близости от конфессий. We could unite at least in the immediate vicinity of Denominations.

Yes, that happens sometimes, but here we are more prone to divide that unite. There is often a mentality that you must choose one group or another, and that you should not cooperate across those lines.