Strannik
Member
This is the problem that Satan distracts people on the third degree of importance of questions and problems. Christians get into discord and abuse the Church, and the Church just can't do it. It is the Body of Christ.
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The difference between unions and associations of Christian Baptists.
- Thread starter Strannik
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Our church does not believe nor follow ANY man-made doctrines or rules pf faith/worship. We are Sola Scriptura.
Baptiesm by immersion-Done either in a local creek, weather & water conditions permitting, or in another church's natatorium as part of its service, by its pastor.
Other observances-Communion, with grape juice & unsalted crackers, several times a year, & foot-washing, in warm weather, several times a year. That's ALL. (Sanctuary is decorated with illuminated crosses, no tree, etc. at Christmastime) No emphasis on Easter, as the observance isn't in Scripture, but the pastor preaches a message about the importance of Jesus' birth/death/resurrection as being the central event of Christianity.
Alcoholic beverage-in great moderation, never enough to be "buzzed".
Tobacco-Discouraged, but not forbidden, except on sanctuary grounds.
Dress- Some believe in dressing up to the "T"s; others "come as they are". In this, as well as hair styles, bling, etc, it's "each according to the dictates of one's own conscience."
Music-Our church has none; not large enough to have any instruments or a choir.
Bible versions-Pastor uses mostly NKJV; some members use NASV or ESV. A couple still use the KJV. And our pastor quite frequently says, "Open your Bibles to..."
Those are my beliefs & practices as well.
Baptiesm by immersion-Done either in a local creek, weather & water conditions permitting, or in another church's natatorium as part of its service, by its pastor.
Other observances-Communion, with grape juice & unsalted crackers, several times a year, & foot-washing, in warm weather, several times a year. That's ALL. (Sanctuary is decorated with illuminated crosses, no tree, etc. at Christmastime) No emphasis on Easter, as the observance isn't in Scripture, but the pastor preaches a message about the importance of Jesus' birth/death/resurrection as being the central event of Christianity.
Alcoholic beverage-in great moderation, never enough to be "buzzed".
Tobacco-Discouraged, but not forbidden, except on sanctuary grounds.
Dress- Some believe in dressing up to the "T"s; others "come as they are". In this, as well as hair styles, bling, etc, it's "each according to the dictates of one's own conscience."
Music-Our church has none; not large enough to have any instruments or a choir.
Bible versions-Pastor uses mostly NKJV; some members use NASV or ESV. A couple still use the KJV. And our pastor quite frequently says, "Open your Bibles to..."
Those are my beliefs & practices as well.
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The first major division among Anglo-American Baptists came about in the 1600s. The brethren were divided between the Particular Baptists and the General Baptists. The Particulars held the Christ only died for the elect. The Generals held He eid for all mankind.
You could always use a CD player
Strannik
Member
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We would have you (your " church") excommunicated. It turns out that you are violating everything that could be violated in the Commandments without violating the criminal code.
Strannik
Member
Well, I know about this division. It basically started in Europe. We have Calvinists in Russia, but there are few of them, because for most of us Calvinism is the most terrible false teaching, since it makes meaningless the Sacrifice of Christ and His command to preach to all people throughout the universe.
HORSE FEATHERS!=====================
We would have you (your " church") excommunicated. It turns out that you are violating everything that could be violated in the Commandments without violating the criminal code.
Appears you're part of a cult.
You can't truthfully point out one violation of any Scriptural commandments that apply now.
robt.k.fall
Member
No, he's a member of the Evangelical Christian-Baptists of the Former Soviet Union. The EC-B doctrine tends to be more aligned with Wesleyan Holiness folks than Anglo-Americans.
Strannik
Member
Which horse's feathers? I don't understand you. Excuse me)))
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Why do you think so? I can justify my claims, but whether you accept them or reject them depends on you.
I'm not in a cult. I am in the Church of Christ, but you would definitely be called a sect here because of your tendency to practice too liberal practices in life. It would even be called " promiscuity." No offense taken. I'm just stating a fact.
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You say that I will not be able to confirm their beliefs with the Word of God, but look.
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You allow yourself to drink alcohol that:
1) It clouds the mind and makes a person insane, and often in intoxication people sin and commit crimes.
The Scriptures tell us about this:
⁸ And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, ⁹ Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: ¹⁰ And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; ¹¹ And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.Leviticus 10:8-11
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
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²⁰ And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is²⁰ stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is²⁰ a glutton, and a drunkard.Deuteronomy 21:20
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
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²⁷ They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wits’ end.Psalms 107:27
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
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²¹ And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. Genesis 9:21
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
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¹² The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. ¹³ Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. ¹⁴ But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.Romans 13:12-14
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
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³ The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; ⁴ That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, ⁵ To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.Titus 2:3-5
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
Strannik
Member
Now about Christian, chaste clothing:
3 that the old women should also dress decently for the saints, not be slanderers, not be enslaved to drunkenness, and teach good things.;
(Titus 2:3)
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¹ Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
² Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. ³ But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. ⁴ Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. ⁵ But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. ⁶ For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. ⁷ For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. ⁸ For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. ⁹ Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. ¹⁰ For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. ¹¹ Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. ¹² For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. ¹³ Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? ¹⁴ Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? ¹⁵ But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. ¹⁶ But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
¹⁷ Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. ¹⁸ For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. ¹⁹ For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
1 Corinthians 11:1-19
© Библия Онлайн, 2003-2021.
can you give some precise examples?=====================
We would have you (your " church") excommunicated. It turns out that you are violating everything that could be violated in the Commandments without violating the criminal code.
Strannik
Member
Well, for example, about the dangers of alcohol and smoking, and other drugs:
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will punish him: for the temple of God is holy, and this temple is you.
18 let no One deceive himself. If any man among you seem to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that to be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is madness before God, as it is written: it catches the wise in their deceit.
20 And again, the Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
(1 Corinthians 3: 16-20)
Strannik
Member
Or do you have an example of excommunication of drug addicts themselves,
"Horse Feathers is an American colloquialism for something not believable, or an outright lie.
I was born & raised in the USA. As I was growing up, Russia was considered an enemy, especially while Stalin was alive. And we didn't trust Khrushchev for one second.
Our cultures are much-different. I don't expect you to adapt to our culture,
Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus nor any apostle forbid ANY wine-drinking. (They didn't have vodka or beer.) They DID forbid getting drunk.
Remember, Jesus turned water into wine, & served wine at the "Last Supper". So your argument that ALY alcohol consumption by ANYONE is evi, is not valid.
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And, Strannik, remember that we don't live as the Jews & Romans of 2k years aho did. Women often have short hair, as do most men. (Jesus likely has His hair cut in short Roman style, as did most Jewish men in that time/place.) And God caused/allowed all the world cultures to form.
In tropical Africa, there are tribes that go about naked most of the time. Does that make them evil? Those people have been shown to be as intelligent as anyone else. Their culture simply doesn't view nakedness as shameful There's no "body-shaming" among them. But missionaries & outside traders wear clothes, & explain to the naked natives that this is THEIR custom, regardless of how hot the weather gets, & the natives accept it.
Now, shame on us if we deny church membership to a man with long hair, based solely upon his appearance. Same for a woman with short hair. (I shave my head.) So, you wouldn't have to excommunicate our church; it wouldn't join your outfit to begin with.
In tropical Africa, there are tribes that go about naked most of the time. Does that make them evil? Those people have been shown to be as intelligent as anyone else. Their culture simply doesn't view nakedness as shameful There's no "body-shaming" among them. But missionaries & outside traders wear clothes, & explain to the naked natives that this is THEIR custom, regardless of how hot the weather gets, & the natives accept it.
Now, shame on us if we deny church membership to a man with long hair, based solely upon his appearance. Same for a woman with short hair. (I shave my head.) So, you wouldn't have to excommunicate our church; it wouldn't join your outfit to begin with.
Strannik
Member
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I understood.
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On the question of culture, I honestly do not understand you. The question of sobriety and sanctification is not a cultural question, but a question of ecclesiastical discipline and growth in spiritual life. So I wasn't going to argue with you in principle. God bless you.
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And they did not have to do this, because the One Born of the Spirit Watches over his ways and the Spirit tells him to beware of everything that leads to destruction, and drunkenness, which begins with a small cup, is not just a bad habit, but a serious misfortune leading to destruction.
Strannik
Member
Robycop3 Are you ready to just accept my answer without your resentment, since I will answer as it is?
Some see drinking at all as sinning, and yet no problem lighting up to smoke a big cigar after dinner!
Yeshua - you should have included the words "a gluttonous" before "dinner"
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