The diffrence of Tongues in Acts and at Corinth

All is forgiven!

~Lorelei

 

Originally posted by Lorelei:

1 Corinthians 12:7
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.

To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
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to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
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to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, [27] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. [28]
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All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines[/QUOTE]Now why am I so wrong for pointing this out to you? Why am I so wrong to state that indeed your belief is in contradiction to the very Word of God? Especially when I point that out to you.

You are not wrong, and we are in agreement. What is the setting here? Paul is teaching the church at corinth the proper way to use spiritual gifts. In the church service, when you all come together. These gifts are used for the edification of the body. If you are going to speak in tongues, make sure there is an interpreter. Paul makes a distinction, however, about speaking in tongues when you are praying to God. The gifts were not only to be used in church, but also outside the church service. So it is true, one is given the gift of tongues (in the church service) yet, we all can operate in all the gifts as the Holy Spirit gives the ability. The Holy Spirit dwells within us. All of us who are saved. Not just some "elite ones" but in all of us.

Originally posted by Naomi:

I am not the judge of your personal salvation, but I am trying to discern if the gospel you are preaching is indeed scriptural.

I respect you for not taking mans word alone, but searching the scriptures for yourself.

The Bereans did that to Paul. Paul was one of the greatest apostles and He led many to Christ, but the Bereans didn't take Paul's word for what he said. They searched the scriptures daily to see if what he said was true, the Bible called them noble for doing so. If they didn't take Paul's word for it, why am I expected to take yours?

You are right! As well as wise !

Naomi says, "You have it if you want it"

Bible says, "All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines"

All of these (gifts) are the work of one and the same spirit.....Yes!!! The Holy Spirit! The work of the Holy Spirit, who dwells inside of us. It is not the work of ourselves in any way, shape or form! He gives us what we need for when we need it! As He determines....

So far, it isn't looking like the two are in unison.

They are in unison....perhaps we are not seeing it?

Naomi

 

All is forgiven!

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]((((((((((((Lorelei))))))))))))))

I just gave you a "cyber-hug"
Naomi

 

The one with the wisdom DOES NOT speak in tongues, so obviously everyone does not have to speak in tongues. Case closed.

 

Dont worry about the others on the board who think they have figured everything out[Oneness]

"Well, now I'm TOTALLY confused! Naomi "speaks-in-tongues" or prayer-language(?), & says I don't have to have this "gift" to be saved: she also has differences with the upc; Ol'Oneness "speaks-in-tongues" & says I cannot be saved without it! "Y'all, these are NOT the tongues of the Bible! They are NOT of God, so they are of the devil! Satan's goal is to deceive & destroy!

"But He answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign..."

**Don, did you ever get/give an answer to your question about Phillip & the apostles/H.G.? Did I miss it in all this 'confusion'?
&lt;--I hate those teef!

 

1. Paul is still talking about gifts in the church
2. The distinction is understanding

The Bible never says this. You deduce this from experience and your understanding of what tongues is.

Since you have agreed that 1 Corinthians 12-14 are speaking about the use of gifts in the church, could you show me a reference where it tells us how to use our gifts outside the church? It obviously won't be in one of these 3 chapters.

Again, the Bible never says this. Since 1 Corinthians says we all are given different gifts, I would like to see your reference that says outside of the church we are able to use all the gifts. Again, you won't find this in these 3 chapters of the Corinthians because those were talking about gifts to be used in the church.

On this we agree, but again, He manifests himself as it pleases Him.

Then how can you say I can have the gift of tongues if I want it. Shouldn't it be said if that is the gift God has given me?

I can't see the unison until you show me where the Bible says all gifts are given to all men.

~Lorelei

 

For clarification, I know that the Holy Spirit is given to all who are in Christ. I am not looking for references about the Holy Spirit or pryaing in the Spirit, I have that ability.

I am talking about references that refer to the gifts of the Spirit being used outside of the church or ministry.

~Lorelei

 

"The sole purpose of brothers and sisters in Christ receiving the spiritual gifts is for the building up of the church in history. Tongues were never given as a ‘private prayer language’.

Since we can easily deduce from Scripture that not all believers would have the gift of tongues (1 Cor.12:10,28-31), then if this gift was to provide a special devotional ‘hotline’ to God solely for a limited, privileged élite, it would go entirely against the many places where we are told that all believers have a full personal channel of direct communication which is ever open (e.g., Heb.4:14-16; Jas.5:16b).

True prayer is discursive and is based on intelligent and intelligible two-way communication between God and His people. The idea of ‘tuning-in’ to the Divine Being through ecstatic babbling which is not understood by the one praying, belongs instead to the realms of mysticism and occult meditation".
&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;

**Naomi~I got the above off a site called Diakrisis, which I think means "discernment". There's a ton of info' out there if you'd just look. Please, don't you want to know the truth?

 

No, but he is in the business of making you think you are worshipping God more.

Feeling like you are worshipping God more, better is exactly how Satan will deceive you.

Yes I have! I found the answers in His word. That answer is No!

Here is the Word experience again. One must experience a true walk with Christ, the Bible is our guide in how to find and properly live that walk.

See, this is that deception again. The angel of darkness disguised as an angel of light deceiving you to believe that you need to pray and fast to find out what the Bible really means. It isn't that difficult. God didn't hide the meaning in secret code. He offered to all, so that we may know if we have eternal life.

Believe me, if it says that not all will speak in tongues, then that is exactly what it meant, for everyone at all times. When it said tongues would cease, it meant that too. When it said women were to be silent, it meant that, when it said you were to repent it mean that too. When it said grace was by faith and not works, guess what...it really meant it!!!

Yes, pray and fast and seek God's guidance, but that will never ever ever ever ever change the meaning of the text in plain everday simple language! If it says don't then by all means don't!!!

Do you even know what you are praying? Can you even interpret your own prayers? When you pray in tongues, do you know what you say????

Put your trust in a God that will bless you for believing without superficial experiences!! Put your trust in Christ who is there for you and will communicate with you so that you can understand. Stop putting your trust in your experience!!!!

Or maybe he will say this, I hope not, but can you be sure???

The deceiver is making people believe they are doing things in the name of Christ, but only those in accordance with God's Word can know for sure.

~Lorelei

 

Originally posted by Lorelei:

1. Paul is still talking about gifts in the church
2. The distinction is understanding

Agreed! Paul is still talking about the proper use of tongues in the church. He is talking about coming together in a church setting. If we spoke in tongues in church, make sure there is one who has the gift of interpretation. Now, he talks about Prayer in an unknown tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:14 If I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. Why would he even equate tongues with prayer? then go on in verse 15. and talk about praying with the spirit, and praying with understanding? Two distinctions made here. Showing that when you come together, do not speak in tongues this way. Do so only if the entire church will be edified, and that is interpretation. Paul also says in verse 17, that if you give thanks using tongues, you are doing well, but the other is not edified. Then he said that he speaks in tongues more than ye all. but in the church service, he would rather use words of understanding so all can be edified. Paul is clearly making a distinction about the use of tongues. In the service, and outside the service (for the unbeliever) and in prayer.
1. 1 Corinthians 14:2- He that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto man but unto God.
*How can this be a sign to the unbelievers in their own language? If it is speaking unto God.

2.1 Corinthians 14:14 If I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth.

14:22- Tongues are a sign to the unbeliever....

YET-

14:23- If all speak with tongues, and there comes in an unbeliever, he will think you are mad!

YET-

The day of pentecost...they were all speaking in tongues, yet there was not confusion! See the difference? Why would there be confusion at this point?

The Bible never says this. You deduce this from experience and your understanding of what tongues is.

Since you have agreed that 1 Corinthians 12-14 are speaking about the use of gifts in the church, could you show me a reference where it tells us how to use our gifts outside the church? It obviously won't be in one of these 3 chapters.

Again, the Bible never says this. Since 1 Corinthians says we all are given different gifts, I would like to see your reference that says outside of the church we are able to use all the gifts. Again, you won't find this in these 3 chapters of the Corinthians because those were talking about gifts to be used in the church.

That is right. Paul was talking about the use of gifts within the church. Outside the church, of course the gifts were in operation. Have you noticed healings, and all other miracles? There are diversities of gifts given by the same spirit. I Peter 4:11- If any man speak, let him do it as of the ability which God has given him. In all things God may be glorified through Christ Jesus. We move and operate in these gifts as the Holy Spirit leads us.

Ro 12:6 -
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Heb 2:4 -
God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Ac 4:30 -
By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
Ac 5:12 -
And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. \

Ro 15:19 -
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

There were many gifts in operation outside the church. Gifts were not only for the edification of the church, but The Holy Spirit moves outside the church as well, just like He does today.



Originally posted by Naomi:

The Holy Spirit dwells within us. All of us who are saved. Not just some "elite ones" but in all of us.

On this we agree, but again, He manifests himself as it pleases Him.

I agree 100%- as it pleases Him!

Then how can you say I can have the gift of tongues if I want it. Shouldn't it be said if that is the gift God has given me?

Again, I am talking about the gift as in Prayer language. Not the gift used in a church service. Remember he said "diversities" of tongues.

I can't see the unison until you show me where the Bible says all gifts are given to all men.

I think we are in unison to a certain degree!

 

How many pages do we have?
To everyone here in this conversation...

If we are in agreement about what we need to do to be saved, and we are in agreement about what The Blood of Jesus accomplished on the cross...and we are out preaching the gospel, and living out our faith, and we are separated from the world, and unified based upon our confession of Jesus, why do you have a problem with us believing the gifts are for today?
Why does that bother you so much?
We are saved. We follow the same Jesus!

So bottom line...What is the real problem?
Naomi

 

You may not want to take God's Word at face value, but I do. Read the verses below, they assure us that the scriptures are sufficient for teaching us.

Taking God's Word at face value within the context of all of scripture is what we must do. No prayer or fasting will give you an interpretation that nullifies it.

My interpretation has not changed the name of the Father to the Name of the Son. Keep reading, even after Acts, Paul and the other writers continued to use the name of the Father. Please, if it changed and we all know it, why did the writers continue to recognize both God the Father and the Son? If His name was now Jesus and this was the only right name, why use any other?

Either the name changed, or it didn't. It didn't just change in Baptism alone, you even declare that. Your interpretation is not only out of context, but it is outside the entire Bible.

But let us get onto the real topic, the one this thread is about. (If you want to re-hash baptism and the name of Jesus again, start another thread) I did notice in your attack upon me, you didn't defend tongues in any way shape or form. You ran off about baptism and the Name of Jesus. What about tongues my friend, where is that verse that shows you the rules in 1 Corinthians don't apply to you? Where does it say that there are two types of tongues? Show me in scripture, not in an essay.

~Lorelei

 

At least someone did.

In Acts:

Paul:

Now, do you???

 

Do you see the word unknown in italics? Do you know that the word unknown is not in the original texts?

Please do clarify if you are aware of this. I was going to link you to an interlinear site that shows you the actual text, but it is either gone or not working at this time!

Naomi,


I will admit I mispoke and didn't mean the gifts were not supposed to be used outside of the Church. I didn't mean in a church building you can use them but in other places you can not. I only meant they are not meant for our private-in-home-personal use. For gifts are supposed to edify the entire body of Christ and yes, those gifts were used in public so that they could be used to be witnesses for Christ.

What do you think the gifts of the Spirit are for?

You still have not shown me where it says that outside of church we all have the same gifts.

You still keep missing the point about the subject in 1 Corinthians never changing. Never did Paul say that tongues were a prayer language. He was talking about the exact same gift where interpretation was and was not used. He also never at any time suggested that all of us would have it in either church or home.

Why do you say we can?

Yes, many gifts were used, but not necessarily by the same people.

Here's food for thought...if the gifts are still around today, why haven't you heard of anyone being raised from the dead?

Realize that I believe God can heal, I believe He can work miracles, but he doesn't need a specially gifted person to work through anymore. The dispensation is here, we have His Word to reveal Himself to each of us, no more do we need words of knowledge from any place other then the Written Word of God.

God never changes, but the way he deals with people does. If it didn't, then we would still be under the Old covenant now wouldn't we?

~Lorelei