The disputed ending of Mark 16.

[Chowmah]

I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week.

Mark 16:9 (KJV)
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Simply a matter of a misplaced comma

Mark 16:9 (KJV)
9 Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

 

[billwald]

There was no punctuation in the autograph. One's theology drives one's parsing.

 

[billwald]

Gerhard - does your church day begin at sundown? Forgive for not have reading all your posts.

I amuses me when people in my congregation refer to The Lord's Day as "the Sabbath" and then have a "2nd" service after sundown.

 

[Chowmah]

There was no punctuation in the autograph. One's theology drives one's parsing.

My parsing gets over 35 mpg and there was no punctuation in all the written Word if i can believe what ive heard.

 

[Chowmah]

Gerhard - does your church day begin at sundown? Forgive for not have reading all your posts.

I amuses me when people in my congregation refer to The Lord's Day as "the Sabbath" and then have a "2nd" service after sundown.

Yeah, billwald i understand your muse. It amuses me when some people refer to the Lords day as sunday

REV.1 [7] Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of THE EARTH SHALL WAIL because of him. Even so, Amen.[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.[10] I was in the Spirit on THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a GREAT VOICE, as of A TRUMPET,

he cometh with clouds - of a trumpet - the Lord's day - a great voice - the earth shall wail

ZEPH.1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall CRY THERE BITTERLY.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness,[16] A day of THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers

a day of clouds - of the trumpet - The great day of the LORD - even the voice - man shall cry there bitterly

See how these two scriptures are speaking of the same exact event. Pretty simple to see now that the Lords day is not sunday but another way to say the Day of the Lord.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

There was no punctuation in the autograph. One's theology drives one's parsing.

GE:

Sure; we are but human. That's why I love the fact that many unbelievers have been critics of the Scriptures. Their 'theology' tempered the 'theology' of the believing translators. The end-result is a less biased whole. I prefer to rely more on linguistics and literalness to reach conclusion and start with my own theology.

All my studies show it, like this one.

I don't like 'silliness' therefore for a cure of my own theology; nor over-simplification, which in my view is running away from the challenges faced with "one's own theology".

Like some in this conversation ...

Some 'simply' with sneering remarks;

Others with duplicity and fence-sitting;

Other(s) with irrelevant screaming smoking up the wrong lane driving.

Choose under which category you belong or want to belong.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

We are faced here with linguistic problems, for me a "back-bush rhetoric" Boer. E.g., what does 'LOL' stand for; or 'ROFL' or ROFTL' and "gets over 35 mpg"?

Could someone supply me with a list of more examples of this sort of American parlance?

Will be appreciated.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Yeah, billwald i understand your muse. It amuses me when some people refer to the Lords day as sunday

REV.1 [7] Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of THE EARTH SHALL WAIL because of him. Even so, Amen.[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.[10] I was in the Spirit on THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a GREAT VOICE, as of A TRUMPET,

he cometh with clouds - of a trumpet - the Lord's day - a great voice - the earth shall wail

ZEPH.1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall CRY THERE BITTERLY.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness,[16] A day of THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers

a day of clouds - of the trumpet - The great day of the LORD - even the voice - man shall cry there bitterly

See how these two scriptures are speaking of the same exact event. Pretty simple to see now that the Lords day is not sunday but another way to say the Day of the Lord.

GE:

Chowman, you act as if we haven't been over this before.

You should know by now the difference between 'heh kuriakeh hehmera' 'The Lord's Day' and 'hehmera tou Theou', 'The Day of the LORD'.

But I also believe and more and more since recently that I have read YOUR arguments, "The Last Day" and "Day of the LORD", shall be "The Lord's Day" "the day The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD".

"God raised Christ BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER"!

That "DAY shall REVEAL HIM"!

I think the Sundayers aren't going to like it.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ruiz,

re: "Mark 16 does not teach a new doctrine."

So you’re saying that the teaching of a first day resurrection was an old doctrine at the time?
　


re: "The text in other places clearly shows the Resurrection on Sunday."

You still haven’t provided any scriptures the clearly show that.

GE:

One of the BETTER answers in this discussion.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Thanks for the link.

The problem I see within all of this is if and when this becomes salvation conditional. One way this is brought in is if you don't believe this, then you were never saved, and that if you're truly saved you'll eventually observe this.

I'm also aware that at times there is a front saying that "Jesus is the only way" yet on the inside, those who are not observing are talked about as not truly being saved.

Then there is the further trouble with this, Sermons, teachings all become central and thematic to Sabbath observance.

GE:

Every action has a reaction, and this one was strong enough to make you react with pulling up shoulders or not.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

................

It's a yoke of bondage and this judaizing is nothing but a snare.

GE:

... but if for the sake of Sunday, it's truly Christian.

This, seeking to find the TRUE Lord's Day the day He rose from the dead on, is NO "yoke of bondage ... judaizing ..." or "snare"; it's a CHRISTIAN DUTY.

It is a duty for to find grounds, reason and PURPOSE for the Christian's life and worship. It's absolutely FUNDAMENTAL and avoiding and trying to escape from it or find excuses for one's own willfulness instead, will have to be answered for before the Judge, one day sooner or later.

Jest and ridicule or judge and condemn however piously! it must frustrate you the debate goes on and on and on ...

That's what I LOVE!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Thanks for the link.

The problem I see within all of this is if and when this becomes salvation conditional. One way this is brought in is if you don't believe this, then you were never saved, and that if you're truly saved you'll eventually observe this.

I'm also aware that at times there is a front saying that "Jesus is the only way" yet on the inside, those who are not observing are talked about as not truly being saved.

Then there is the further trouble with this, Sermons, teachings all become central and thematic to Sabbath observance.

GE:

And the ONLY thing 'wrong' with that, is that you have no Bible-answer against it.

You almost sound like Yahweh telling Israel the trouble is the Sabbath is a sign that He is their God.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Tom Bryant,

re: "So you think we ought to go back to a 7th day observance?"

I don’t see what I said in the OP that would cause you to ask that question. I wonder if you might explain?

GE:


Here's why I am not a Seventh-day Baptist;

they can't take their stand.

And their stand is after all,
just based on the Old Law,

not on Jesus' Resurrection from the dead ... "on the Sabbath" ... of course!

I refuse to apologise for believing and basing my faith on Christ; and on his Resurrection; and on the Truth He rose from the dead “In Sabbath’s fullness” as fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

As I refuse to be ashamed of the fact or apologise for it that God made me what I am. God is the Author and Finisher of my faith; as He is the Author and Fulfiller of His Word.

THAT, is WHY I – unlike the Seventh-day Baptists, the Seventh-day Adventists or the COG Seventh Day’s – believe and defend and fight for “The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD”, “The Lord’s Day”.

“when this becomes salvation conditional” for some, so be it!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Why I am not a SDB?

Confirm with this ...

Actually I was being sarcastic. You brought up the issue of saventh day observance. I just read them. You told me to read the OP, I did. It was still unclear what you meant, so I asked.

So what then is your reason for taking all the time and effort in this?

GE:

Can they give straight reason or answer?

 

[rstrats]

GE,

re: "Can they give straight reason or answer?"


The answer was given in post #56.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

GE,

re: "Can they give straight reason or answer?"


The answer was given in post #56.

GE:

OK, see what I mean ...

 

[Chowmah]

We know that the disciples worshiped on the first day of the week as is shown in the Scriptures.

Ive never seen one scripture that had the disciples worshiping on the 1st day of the week. Could you show me these scriptures?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I was away ('off board') for a while ... a few days or so.

Chowman, how long have you been waiting for an answer now?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Remember this?

"What I am saying, is other texts clearly teach it.

You are setting a standard for evidence to the hyperliteralism. However, exegetically, we don't need hyperliteralism to show the first day like we don't need it for the Trinity. The passages I cited clearly show Jesus rose on the first day of the week within it's context. If you want a hyperliteral text, we will not be able to meet your criteria. However, if you accepted standard exegetical rules, the evidence is clear... as clear as the Trinity."

...

his 'Scriptures' with complements from Quiz.

... ah, sorry man, Mr ruiz ... OK with capital letter, Ruiz ...


But I have something else to settle with our friend Quiz ...
about A.T. Robertson, who - as alleged - believed a 'Saturday resurrection' ...

I'll sommer do my asking in this post, Mr Quiz, please let me know where you found that information ... it will be very much appreciated by me. GE.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ive never seen one scripture that had the disciples worshiping on the 1st day of the week. Could you show me these scriptures?

GE:

Now it's a question to you, dear friend Chowman,

Which is that one Scripture, please? And sommer quote it pleaze; I'm a lazy man.