The distinction between soul and spirit of man

[Dr. Walter]

I beleive that each aspect of man is a triparte as well:

1. The body = blood, flesh, bones (each aspect is triparte as well, bones are triparte)
2. The soul = intellect, will, emotions
3. The spirit - conscience, intuition, communion

However, each overlap with the other. The will of man or volition overlaps the soul with the body as the will is what activates the body to perform or act. The conscience overlaps the spirit with the soul of man as it is the conscience that is purged and renewed in regeneration and affects the thinking, feeling and willing of man. Also, the soul not only struggles to control the conscience but cannot control it except by its affects upon the mind (hardened the mind). When the Spirit empowers the conscience then the soul is brought into submission through a repentant condition of the soul.

Intuition in the spirit is distinct from intellect as the intellect functions by learning processes whereas intuition is direct and immediate. We can study and think and ponder and not understand the Word of God but when the Indwelling Spirit in our human spirit wants us to understand he gives direct and immediate knowledge/light or we we refer to knowledge by intuition. The same is true with the lost man when demons indwell the spirit.

The human spirit is the seat of communion with whatever spirit indwells the human spirit. Lost persons are in communion with Satan or one of his demons (Eph. 2:2-3) whereas communion with God occurs in the spirit of man that has been cleansed and washed as the sanctuary of the Indwelling Spirit of God.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

I beleive that each aspect of man is a triparte as well:

1. The body = blood, flesh, bones (each aspect is triparte as well, bones are triparte)
2. The soul = intellect, will, emotions
3. The spirit - conscience, intuition, communion

However, each overlap with the other.
----snip----

Never considered the body or human spirit made of "pieces" like that.

Maybe not pieces, more like, ?nodes? or ?traits?

Interesting, very interesting...

Not sure it helps in teaching, yet... :applause:

 

[Dr. Walter]

Never considered the body or human spirit made of "pieces" like that.

Maybe not pieces, more like, ?nodes? or ?traits?

Interesting, very interesting...

Not sure it helps in teaching, yet... :applause:

God provides salvation for the WHOLE man. If we do not understand what constitutes the WHOLE man we cannot understand the salvation provided for the WHOLE man.

I believe it is impossible to understand the present tense aspect of salvation apart from correctly understanding the "soul/life" condition of man. The whole argument over loss of salvation hinges on understanding this aspect.

 

[Jedi Knight]

That is the usual response whenever a text does not fit someone's game plan.

I see your trying to be so deep about something that just is not there then resort to condescending remarks is all. I think it's so clear it's a stumbling block to you.......I agree with Webdog here.....despite our past disagreements.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I see your trying to be so deep about something that just is not there then resort to condescending remarks is all. I think it's so clear it's a stumbling block to you.......I agree with Webdog here.....despite our past disagreements.

Empty words with nothing to support them!

I have backed my position up several ways. I provided the Romans 7:14-8:13 trichotomy. I completely answered in detail all objections to Hebrews 4:12. NO substantive responses yet!

 

[Jedi Knight]

Empty words with nothing to support them!

I have backed my position up several ways. I provided the Romans 7:14-8:13 trichotomy. I completely answered in detail all objections to Hebrews 4:12. NO substantive responses yet!

I proved my point......just not gonna make up something new to look smart.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Dr. Walter]

I proved my point......just not gonna make up something new to look smart.:smilewinkgrin:

You ASSERTED a point but you PROVED nothing! I both ASSERTED and DEMONSTATED not only my point but proved your assertions were simply that - unfounded assertions. You simply did not look more closely at the texts you were trying to use.

Hebrews 4:12-13 when carefully considered and studied objectively in the light of what it actually says completely destroys every assertion you made about it.

The other texts you simply asserted instead of defended, when carefully examined for what they do say proves nothing in your behalf.

I have placed Romans 7 with a clear trichotomy in your face and you can do nothing with it. Why not lay down your arms and simply come to the table with honest objectivity???

Again, there is repeatedly a conscious "I" in distinct contrast to "my flesh" and "inward man" in Romans 7:14-25. This makes no sense with the dichotomy interpretation.

 

[Jedi Knight]

You ASSERTED a point but you PROVED nothing!

If you insist. :sleeping_2:

 

[Dr. Walter]

If you insist. :sleeping_2:

I think we agree on more than we disagree:applause:

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

I think we agree on more than we disagree:applause:

Now *that's* a Great Start! :thumbs::applause:

Now, did anyone read my sharing?

http://www.houseofmyrrh.com/StirUpTheGift.htm

And, how bad was it from a Baptist Standpoint?

 

[Dr. Walter]

Now *that's* a Great Start! :thumbs::applause:

Now, did anyone read my sharing?

http://www.houseofmyrrh.com/StirUpTheGift.htm

And, how bad was it from a Baptist Standpoint?

The "earnest" is not in a context of an engagement or marriage. It is in the context of a "purchase" or buying off the block in a market place. It is the common idea of "earnest" money that backs up a PROMISE that the buyer will return and complete the the transaction. The initial transaction involves the Holy Spirit in SEALING the elect and the final transaction involves the Holy Spirit in uniting soul and body and glorifying it in its final condition.

Both the "seal" and "earnest" have to do with the SECURITY of the believer not an engagement or marriage concept.

You can see how far I got in your article. I will read the rest.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Now *that's* a Great Start! :thumbs::applause:

Now, did anyone read my sharing?

http://www.houseofmyrrh.com/StirUpTheGift.htm

And, how bad was it from a Baptist Standpoint?

On Guam the leadership decided that it would be a good idea to have Island-Wide Charismatic meetings. There were several Charismatic Priests and Nuns who had been detailed to Guam’s extremely old-school Diocese and they had made discreet inquiries about meeting with other Spirit-Filled believers…

Tell me, did these charismatic Preists and nuns abhor and refuse to participate in the Mass? Did they stop their Mariolotry? Did they refuse to act as mediators between their parishners and God? Was there any repentance and faith in the true gospel???

The primary characteristic of the Spirit of God is "Truth" and "holiness." This is precisely why I believe the Charistmatic/Pentecostal movement is not empowered by the Holy Spirit. It will cross over denominational boundaries without affecting doctrine or practice or one's view of salvation - that is the devil not the Holy Spirit.

Benny Hinn relates in one of his books (I have them and have read them) that he went into the Catholic Church and observed Mass with the Priests and Nuns while having a Holy Spirit tongue fest and slain in the Spirit. My take, is that was demonic in its entirety.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Now *that's* a Great Start! :thumbs::applause:

Now, did anyone read my sharing?

http://www.houseofmyrrh.com/StirUpTheGift.htm

And, how bad was it from a Baptist Standpoint?

Will – The seat of who we determine ourselves to be. ???In the non-Pentecostal this part of man reigns supreme and never falters.???

Oh please! You don't have to be a Pentecostal or speak in tongues or be baptized in the Spirit (all are non-Biblical in their character) and "walk after the Spirit." To preach, pray, live, rejoice "in the Spirit" simply means you do these things under His leadership and power of the Spirit of God. John the Baptist never performed a miracle, never spoke in tongues, never was slain in the Spirit but yet was "filled" "preached" and prayed or "walked after the Spirit."

I do not know of a single solitary self-proclaimed prophet within the Pentecostal movement (and there are many) that has not failed the tests of a prophet many times over! The spirit behind them is demonic and their works prove it over and over again. Thus those who follow them and embrace their prophetic character are being led by demons (1 Tim. 4:1; 1 Jn. 4:1-6).

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

The "earnest" is not in a context of an engagement or marriage. It is in the context of a "purchase" or buying off the block in a market place. It is the common idea of "earnest" money that backs up a PROMISE that the buyer will return and complete the the transaction. The initial transaction involves the Holy Spirit in SEALING the elect and the final transaction involves the Holy Spirit in uniting soul and body and glorifying it in its final condition.

Both the "seal" and "earnest" have to do with the SECURITY of the believer not an engagement or marriage concept.

You can see how far I got in your article. I will read the rest.

I can see your view on the "Earnest"...

In either case the security of the Believer, whether engaged to the Bridegroom or bought off the slave block is real because Faithful is He who Promised.

Our Theological Upbringings tend to make us "shade" meanings at times.

How do your read Genesis 24?

Most Pentecostals see it as a type of the Holy Spirit seeking a Bride for Christ.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

On Guam the leadership decided that it would be a good idea to have Island-Wide Charismatic meetings. There were several Charismatic Priests and Nuns who had been detailed to Guam’s extremely old-school Diocese and they had made discreet inquiries about meeting with other Spirit-Filled believers…

Tell me, did these charismatic Preists and nuns abhor and refuse to participate in the Mass? Did they stop their Mariolotry? Did they refuse to act as mediators between their parishners and God? Was there any repentance and faith in the true gospel???

The primary characteristic of the Spirit of God is "Truth" and "holiness." This is precisely why I believe the Charistmatic/Pentecostal movement is not empowered by the Holy Spirit. It will cross over denominational boundaries without affecting doctrine or practice or one's view of salvation - that is the devil not the Holy Spirit.

Benny Hinn relates in one of his books (I have them and have read them) that he went into the Catholic Church and observed Mass with the Priests and Nuns while having a Holy Spirit tongue fest and slain in the Spirit. My take, is that was demonic in its entirety.

First let me sincerely thank you for taking the time to read my tome.

As regards to the Catholic Church... This is an area where many have extremely strong feelings and it is an area where you and I will disagree on the possibility that a catholic can be saved and remain a Catholic.

I do know that most (if not all) of the Charismatic Nuns and Priests were detailed elsewhere at the Bishops request.

That is to say, after the big "blow-up" we couldn't find any of them anymore on the Island.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Will – The seat of who we determine ourselves to be. ???In the non-Pentecostal this part of man reigns supreme and never falters.???

Oh please! You don't have to be a Pentecostal or speak in tongues or be baptized in the Spirit (all are non-Biblical in their character) and "walk after the Spirit." To preach, pray, live, rejoice "in the Spirit" simply means you do these things under His leadership and power of the Spirit of God. John the Baptist never performed a miracle, never spoke in tongues, never was slain in the Spirit but yet was "filled" "preached" and prayed or "walked after the Spirit."

I do not know of a single solitary self-proclaimed prophet within the Pentecostal movement (and there are many) that has not failed the tests of a prophet many times over! The spirit behind them is demonic and their works prove it over and over again. Thus those who follow them and embrace their prophetic character are being led by demons (1 Tim. 4:1; 1 Jn. 4:1-6).

Again, we will have to disagree, partially, concerning the Prophetic, especially the Current Prophetic tendencies in Pentecostal Circles.

I will say they are Fleshly Manifestations of ego. And, yes, they do fail the test of a True Prophet of God.

We could probably discourse at length between The Gift of Prophecy and The Office of a Prophet.

Most, if not all, Pentecostals confuse the difference.

In all my years in Pentecost, I have not seen a single person who walked in the office of a prophet.

The one person I have seen that qualifies Biblically is a non-Pentecostal Southern Baptist Preacher! No if that doesn't present a certain Chagrin...

Also, noted, and agreed with Partially, if I understand your point, I am not at all sure I do at this point, I the tendency that Pentecostals tend to make a vain attempt at judging themselve by themsleves.

While we differ, frequently at times, in our exegesis, there can be no definitive template against which to judge oursleve than God's Written Word.

2Ti 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

If we really know God's Word than we can excersize our will to His Glory.

Remembering, that being an "emotional" Pentecostal, I must also consider temprary blindess at times if I do not keep adequate reign on said emotions.

But, you may want to clarify your above post, if I have not gotten the correct idea from it?

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

As I reviewed the post this made for sense as questionable

Will – The seat of who we determine ourselves to be.

I am not sure how I could rephrase this. I think a big part of the conflict here will be because we come from different camps as regards Predestination, Human Volition, and even Eternal Security.

Basically, if you are of the Free-Will Camp then, "we" determine who we will obey, what we will read and how we will act on it. Which from my background is a function of "Will".


But, I can imagine where this would, or at least could, conflict with Predestination. I think. And, even Eternal Security.

Unfortunately, thats another area where we will have to disagree on.

It's interesting how I never even considered that such a "minor" statement could have such ramifications between us Arminians and Calvinists.

Very enlightening.

Guess it wouldn't be a good idea to share this from a Baptist Pulpit!

 

[Dr. Walter]

We could probably discourse at length between The Gift of Prophecy and The Office of a Prophet.

Most, if not all, Pentecostals confuse the difference.

Whether a person calls themselves a "prophet" or whether they claim "the gift of Prophecy" makes absolutely no difference IF either introduce their "prophecy" or "visiion" or "dream" in the following manner:

"Thus saith the Lord"
"The Lord showed me"
"The Spirit gave me"
"God said to me"

Any similar introduction in regard to a prophesy, dream, vision places them under the test of a prophet and if any aspect is theologically wrong, does not come to pass" then they are HENCEFORTH AND FOREVERMORE deemed a false prophet as the test of a prophet provides NO SECOND CHANCES but imposes DEATH by God's Word.

Just because we cannot impose the death penalty today makes no difference in regard to that speaker.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Whether a person calls themselves a "prophet" or whether they claim "the gift of Prophecy" makes absolutely no difference IF either introduce their "prophecy" or "visiion" or "dream" in the following manner:

"Thus saith the Lord"
"The Lord showed me"
"The Spirit gave me"
"God said to me"

Any similar introduction in regard to a prophesy, dream, vision places them under the test of a prophet and if any aspect is theologically wrong, does not come to pass" then they are HENCEFORTH AND FOREVERMORE deemed a false prophet as the test of a prophet provides NO SECOND CHANCES but imposes DEATH by God's Word.

Just because we cannot impose the death penalty today makes no difference in regard to that speaker.

Agree Absolutely!

Thankfully we are under Grace and not Law so, I am freed from Condemning to Death the errant ones.

The other issue which you didn't bring up. probably because you are not on my side of the aisle is that:

1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

*IF* we as Pentecostals are going to include Prophets in our fellowships then I think it would behoove us to follow this edict!

But, what usually happens is everyone is so overwhelmed by having a prophet speak that they give it a pass, fearing that by judging a prophecy they will quench the Spirit.

I say not so!

Obedience will not Quench the Spirit!

Disobedience most assuredly will!


Side-Note: I am thankful that the Laws "One Strike and You're Out" Rule is not applied to either of us under Grace...

I don't think either of us would have lasted as long as we have under that "Yoke".

But, I redily and strongly agree that Grace should not be a license to allow all these fly-by-night prophets to run loose in our midst.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Agree Absolutely!

Thankfully we are under Grace and not Law so, I am freed from Condemning to Death the errant ones.

The other issue which you didn't bring up. probably because you are not on my side of the aisle is that:

1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

*IF* we as Pentecostals are going to include Prophets in our fellowships then I think it would behoove us to follow this edict!

But, what usually happens is everyone is so overwhelmed by having a prophet speak that they give it a pass, fearing that by judging a prophecy they will quench the Spirit.

I say not so!

Obedience will not Quench the Spirit!

Disobedience most assuredly will!


Side-Note: I am thankful that the Laws "One Strike and You're Out" Rule is not applied to either of us under Grace...

I don't think either of us would have lasted as long as we have under that "Yoke".

But, I redily and strongly agree that Grace should not be a license to allow all these fly-by-night prophets to run loose in our midst.

Well, I will say one thing for you, you are not the typical Pentecostal/charismatic.

Does it not bother you, that all the major leaders in the Penetcostal movement from its inception have come under the condemnation of a false prophet????? No matter where you look in history since the early 1900's every major leader among this movement is by Biblical definition a "false prophet" just as Joseph Smith, Russell, White, Eddy, etc.

It seems that you accept the idea that a false prophet yesterday afternoon can be a true prophet this afternoon?

I have run into Pentecostals who simply dismiss this problem by asking me if I am perfect and do I make mistakes???? My response is, I have never claimed to speak for God and that places you in an entire different Biblical category.