-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The DNA of Jesus?
- Thread starter Armchair Apologist
- Start date
I was asked for the scripture references, I missed one that ties it all together in Luke.
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
Genesis 3:15
“The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another” Exodus 25:20
“And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the Ark of the Testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.” Exodus 25:22
“And He rode on a cherub and flew: and appeared on the wings of the wind”
2 Samuel 22:11
“ And the Angel replied “ The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called Son of God “ Luke 1: 35
Foxmeister
Active Member
Next he’ll say Peter wasn’t married.
The Ark of The Covenant contained 3 things that were the type of Christ, fulfilled in the New Covenant by Christ.
The Ten Commandments the word of God.
The manna in a gold ciborium
The Rod of Aaron the high priest.
Jesus is the Incarnate Word of God
Jesus is Manna from Heaven, The Eucharist.
Jesus is The High Priest
When the Incarnation happened the Hypostatic Union took place in Mary, The Ark of the New Covenant.
The Most Holy God dwelling with us.
The Ark of the Covenant was the prefigurement of Mary and how She would become the dwelling place and Throne of God on earth.
The Ark of the Covenant also serves as an example to us how The Ark of the New Covenant is to be honoured and venerated.
The Ark had to be made totally immaculate to God’s meticulous instructions.
Mary was made meticulously pure and Immaculate directly by God at her conception, in fulfilment of His word in Genesis.
“ The Almighty has done great things for me”
Satan had used a woman to help make man the enemy of God through sin.
God would make the Woman Mary the Immaculate enemy of satan, not under his dominion but a Throne for God Incarnate who would redeem the world, crushing the serpents head.
The Ten Commandments the word of God.
The manna in a gold ciborium
The Rod of Aaron the high priest.
Jesus is the Incarnate Word of God
Jesus is Manna from Heaven, The Eucharist.
Jesus is The High Priest
When the Incarnation happened the Hypostatic Union took place in Mary, The Ark of the New Covenant.
The Most Holy God dwelling with us.
The Ark of the Covenant was the prefigurement of Mary and how She would become the dwelling place and Throne of God on earth.
The Ark of the Covenant also serves as an example to us how The Ark of the New Covenant is to be honoured and venerated.
The Ark had to be made totally immaculate to God’s meticulous instructions.
Mary was made meticulously pure and Immaculate directly by God at her conception, in fulfilment of His word in Genesis.
“ The Almighty has done great things for me”
Satan had used a woman to help make man the enemy of God through sin.
God would make the Woman Mary the Immaculate enemy of satan, not under his dominion but a Throne for God Incarnate who would redeem the world, crushing the serpents head.
At the Great Atonement for all Israel the Ark of the Covenant was central at the Sacrifice.
The High Priest sprinkled the blood of sacrifice “on and before “ the Ark of the Covenant.
At the Great Atonement for the whole world, Christ The High Priest sprinkled His blood on and before Mary The Ark of the New Covenant at the foot of the Cross.
The High Priest sprinkled the blood of sacrifice “on and before “ the Ark of the Covenant.
At the Great Atonement for the whole world, Christ The High Priest sprinkled His blood on and before Mary The Ark of the New Covenant at the foot of the Cross.
Genesis 3:15 NASB
And I will make enemies
Of you and the woman,
And of your offspring and her [fn]Descendant;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise Him on the heel.”
My understanding of the verse is that "the woman" is Eve and her seed is Jesus.
Eve became an enemy of Satan as she would initiate the linage of Jesus who will end the adversary.
Your understanding is wrong.
Who is the serpents offspring?
Adam and Eve and their descendants are the offspring of the serpent through sin and the fall. Enemies of God.
Eve cooperated with the serpent.
Mary was the woman that cooperated and listened to God, Mary was the enemy of the serpent, and Her offspring Jesus crushed the serpents head.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
The context in Genesis 3 indicates that the seed of the woman, Eve, is meant:
NKJV Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
Gen 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel."
Gen 3:16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you."
Are you claiming that Mary was present in the Garden of Eden, or that the woman of verse 16 is somehow a different woman to the one mentioned
in verses 13 an d 15?
God is prophesying His future action and a future woman.
The serpents offspring was Adam and Eve and their offspring, made enemies of God. Fallen mankind.
So God is telling the serpent “ Because you have done this “
He is going to make the woman satan’s enemy which is fulfilled in Mary and her offspring would crush his head.
Eve is the mother of the fallen unregenerated, Mary is the new Eve, Mother of the Redeemer and all the Redeemed.
“ between your offspring and her offspring “
Eve was the disobedient fallen sinful enemy of God, not Satan.
Mary however would be made by God to be the Immaculate enemy of the serpent, obedient to God and Mother of the Redeemer who would crush his head.
Eve was created sinless, immaculate and perfect, but by her disobedience taking the fruit and seducing Adam to eat, she fell and brought death.
God took Eves blessing away and gave it to another. This is a biblical theme and principle.
"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit."
"The LORD has done what he predicted through me: The LORD tore the kingdom out of your hands and gave it to one of your neighbors—to David."
"So Samuel said to him, 'The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you.'"
Mary was better than Eve, she would be the woman who would produce God’s fruit.
“ Blessed is the fruit of your womb “
God took Eves blessing away and gave it to another. This is a biblical theme and principle.
"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit."
"The LORD has done what he predicted through me: The LORD tore the kingdom out of your hands and gave it to one of your neighbors—to David."
"So Samuel said to him, 'The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you.'"
Mary was better than Eve, she would be the woman who would produce God’s fruit.
“ Blessed is the fruit of your womb “
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Not according to the context. In verse 13 we read: "And the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." Then with nothing to indicate that a different woman is meant, verse 15 has God saying: "And I will put enmity Between you and the woman."
It is Jesus Christ Who crushes the serpent's head.
Yet Eve was the mother of godly Seth.
Genesis does not mention Mary.
Seth wasn’t the offspring to crush the serpents head.
“It is Jesus Christ Who crushes the serpent's head”
Who was the offspring of Mary.
You seem to be so hell bent making Eve the mother of Jesus, you totally delete Mary, Jesus actual Mother.
Jesus is the offspring of Mary.
God was prophesying the Woman Mary, the enemy of serpent, not the women who collaborated with the serpent Eve.
After the fall, God was prophesying the Redemption the woman Mary, the obedient woman whose offspring was Christ.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
I didn't say he was. I was answering your claim: "Eve is the mother of the fallen unregenerated." That is why I said what I did about Seth being godly. He was a son of Adam and Eve, not of Mary.
Yes, but that doesn't mean Mary crushed the serpent's head.
When have I said that Eve was the mother of Jesus? Yet Eve's seed down the generations eventually included Mary, and Jesus.
1) One of us is wrong.
2) The result of the Fall made all humanity, except of course Jesus, the "seed" of Satan. So we agree, but it is non-germane to the issue in dispute, who is "the woman" in Genesis 3:15.
3) Yes, Eve "cooperated" with the serpent, and tempted Adam. Again, non-germane to the issue in dispute.
The concept that Genesis 3:15 is referring to "Mary" has no support in scripture. It must be read into the text. The view nullifies all the scriptural references to Christ's lineage.
The Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus is fully Man and fully God. Of that there is (should be) no doubt. Mark 4:35-41 is maybe the simplest passage to establish that.
His mother Mary was a sinner like the rest of us. Of that there is (should be) no doubt. Luke 1:46-47. 'and Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God My Saviour."' Like the rest of us, Mary needed a Saviour. The Lord Jesus was without sin (2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15; 7:26). All the stuff about DNA is of no interest to me. The Bible tells me, not necessarily waht I might wish to know, but what I need to know (Deut. 29:29).
We can and should honour Mary for her obedience to God's decree for her, in the same way that we might honour someone like Joseph or Daniel, but no more than that.
That’s right, Mary was already saved.
Mary was saved from her Immaculate Conception, she was saved by God from Original Sin and all personal sin.
She had to be free of all sin for the hypostatic union to take place of her flesh.
Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, God Incarnate was made flesh of her flesh by the power of The Holy Spirit.
She was the living Throne and dwelling place of God.
If Mary had original sin or personal sin, the Incarnation of Jesus could not have happened through her.
That’s why God saved her and preserved her from all sin in the first place.
God created Eve sinless and perfect, but she was disobedient and fell.
Mary was created the sinless Immaculate woman by God who could have Incarnate God formed from her sinless flesh.
God saved Mary for this purpose.
The prefigurement of this can be seen in the Ark of the Covenant before God would manifest His Presence with it.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I see. You noticed the word “overshadow” is used in two different verses and believe there is a connection.I was asked for the scripture references, I missed one that ties it all together in Luke.
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
Genesis 3:15
“The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another” Exodus 25:20
“And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the Ark of the Testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.” Exodus 25:22
“And He rode on a cherub and flew: and appeared on the wings of the wind”
2 Samuel 22:11
“ And the Angel replied “ The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called Son of God “ Luke 1: 35
Since the second reference is to Mary and the power of God Holy Spirit “overshadowing” her at the conception of Jesus, you think Mary is connected to the Ark of the covenant and the reference to the wings of the cherubim “overshadowing” the mercy seat?
I would have to research the issue to see if scholars make that connection, perhaps as foreshadowing the birth of Jesus as replacing the mercy seat.
If there is a connection, it would be to Jesus, not Mary, imo.
Again, the woman in Gen. 3 is Eve, not Mary.
Your focus on Mary is unbiblical, imo, and simply takes our attention of Jesus, where it should be.
Mary can forgive no one. Mary can give grace to no one. Mary can save no one.
Mary certainly has the privilege of being chosen by God to bare the Messiah.
She was not sinless, however. She was not a perpetual virgin (scripture clearly states Jesus had four brothers and at least two sisters). She is not a “co-redeemer” with Jesus.
Peace to you
She was saved by faith, likethe rest of us, including all the O.T. saints (e.g. Gen. 15:6; John 6:56; Heb. 11).
No, Mary was saved before she could sin, we are saved after we sinned.
Mary had to be Holy and Immaculate for the Incarnation of God to happen of her flesh. She is Ark of the New Covenant.
The sinless enemy of the serpent, the rest of humanity was the enemy of God by sin since the Fall.
From the first parents all mankind was enemies of God because of sin, but God promised He would make the woman the serpent’s enemy by no sin, and her offspring would crush his head.