The Doctrine of Justification

[Van]

No person is justified because they are a believer or true believer. Only when and if God puts a person spiritually in Christ and undergoes the circumcision of Christ is a person justified.

It is one thing to believe Christ provided the justification of life to all men and quite another to receive that justification by being set apart spiritually in Christ.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

" ... by being set apart spiritually in Christ."

That's sanctification, not justification.

 

[Van]

That's sanctification, not justification.

Only after a person is set apart in Christ (undergoes positional sanctification) does a person undergo the circumcision of Christ (Justification).

Here is what I presented: In the 1950"s I drove cars with "Dynaflow" or "Hydramatic" transmissions. Here we have the "Faithomatic" transmission turning the unjustified into the justified "automatically." The little step of being saved by grace is left out. Faith provides access to the grace in which we stand. How does that work? Not automatically, but it is God who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, and if He does, then He sets the person apart in Christ, where they undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation, justified through the removal of our sin burden.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Only after a person is set apart in Christ (undergoes positional sanctification) does a person undergo the circumcision of Christ (Justification).

Here is what I presented: In the 1950"s I drove cars with "Dynaflow" or "Hydramatic" transmissions. Here we have the "Faithomatic" transmission turning the unjustified into the justified "automatically." The little step of being saved by grace is left out.

Utter, complete nonsense. No one leaves "saved by grace" out. One can't be saved without grace, so this is a straw man argument, a logical fallacy. The Bible speaks directly to this issue.

Romans 4, (NASB)
3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Romans 5
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
---
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Galatians 2
16 ... knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 3
11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident ; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."​

Go ahead, fault Paul for not including the obviously necessary step of being given God's grace in discussing the instantaneous granting of faith and justification under the Law.

Faith provides access to the grace in which we stand.

NO!!! Grace from God is what grants us the faith to believe!! You really don't understand how salvation works.

 

[saturneptune]

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

After salvation, the book of James paints an exact picture of the relationship between faith and works.

 

[Yeshua1]

Only after a person is set apart in Christ (undergoes positional sanctification) does a person undergo the circumcision of Christ (Justification).

Here is what I presented: In the 1950"s I drove cars with "Dynaflow" or "Hydramatic" transmissions. Here we have the "Faithomatic" transmission turning the unjustified into the justified "automatically." The little step of being saved by grace is left out. Faith provides access to the grace in which we stand. How does that work? Not automatically, but it is God who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, and if He does, then He sets the person apart in Christ, where they undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation, justified through the removal of our sin burden.

The Bible clearly states that the BASIS of a sinner salcvation is the death/resurrection of jesus, which a sinner receives from God thru faith ALONE...

that gets us justified in sight of god, instant happening, as we get new natures and sealed by Holy spirit very momnet belive in him...

Do you agree with that truth?

 

[Van]

Utter, complete nonsense. No one leaves "saved by grace" out. One can't be saved without grace, so this is a straw man argument, a logical fallacy. The Bible speaks directly to this issue.

Romans 4, (NASB)
3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Romans 5
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
---
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Galatians 2
16 ... knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 3
11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident ; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."​

Go ahead, fault Paul for not including the obviously necessary step of being given God's grace in discussing the instantaneous granting of faith and justification under the Law.NO!!! Grace from God is what grants us the faith to believe!! You really don't understand how salvation works.

1) If we are spiritually outside of Christ, we have not been saved by grace. When God sets us apart in Christ, that action is both merciful and gracious. Once in Christ, we receive more grace, more undeserved blessings.

2) Yes God does credit our faith in Christ as righteousness and set us apart in Christ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

3) Yes, we are justified by faith. When God credits our faith as righteousness, He places us in Christ where we are justified by the circumcision of Christ. Our faith provides the access to God's grace of salvation, Romans 5:1-2.

4) Yes, once God puts us in Christ we are justified by His blood, and more than that, we shall be saved (ultimate sanctification - a future aspect of our salvation) from the wrath of God, undergoing the resurrection to life, rather than the resurrection to death.

5) Yes, we are justified through faith in Jesus Christ by God crediting that faith and placing us in Christ.

6) Yes, no one is justified by the works of the Law.

When studying scripture, we must look at all the passages that address the topic. If a step is in one, but not mentioned in another, that does not indicate the step is invalidated; rather the step must be assumed to harmonize the verses.

I have an understanding of how salvation works that is consistent with all scripture. Four of the five points of Calvinism do not fit with any scripture, contextually considered.

The "Faithomatic" transmission is found nowhere in scripture.

BTW, take a look at the NET translation of Galatians 2:16.

 

[Yeshua1]

1) If we are spiritually outside of Christ, we have not been saved by grace. When God sets us apart in Christ, that action is both merciful and gracious. Once in Christ, we receive more grace, more undeserved blessings.

2) Yes God does credit our faith in Christ as righteousness and set us apart in Christ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

3) Yes, we are justified by faith. When God credits our faith as righteousness, He places us in Christ where we are justified by the circumcision of Christ. Our faith provides the access to God's grace of salvation, Romans 5:1-2.

4) Yes, once God puts us in Christ we are justified by His blood, and more than that, we shall be saved (ultimate sanctification - a future aspect of our salvation) from the wrath of God, undergoing the resurrection to life, rather than the resurrection to death.

5) Yes, we are justified through faith in Jesus Christ by God crediting that faith and placing us in Christ.

6) Yes, no one is justified by the works of the Law.

When studying scripture, we must look at all the passages that address the topic. If a step is in one, but not mentioned in another, that does not indicate the step is invalidated; rather the step must be assumed to harmonize the verses.

I have an understanding of how salvation works that is consistent with all scripture. Four of the five points of Calvinism do not fit with any scripture, contextually considered.

The "Faithomatic" transmission is found nowhere in scripture.

BTW, take a look at the NET translation of Galatians 2:16.

We are either "in Christ", or "In Adam", as right when one beoieves in jesus as their Lord/Saviour right there is when we get justified before God, new natures, and sealed by the Spirit of Grace!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

1) If we are spiritually outside of Christ, we have not been saved by grace.

Then we can't be justified. Only one who is saved is justified. You're making (as usual) a mountain out of a molehill, and continuing to confuse sanctification with justification. You do so throughout this entire post.

 

[Van]

Then we can't be justified. Only one who is saved is justified. You're making (as usual) a mountain out of a molehill, and continuing to confuse sanctification with justification. You do so throughout this entire post.

No, I am presenting truth.

1) Yes, only a saved person is justified, and only a justified person is saved. When God puts us spiritually in Christ we are

a) Sealed with the Holy Spirit as a pledge to our bodily resurrection at Christ's second coming.
b) Justified by undergoing the circumcision of Christ where our sin burden is removed.
c) Made a new creation, created for good works.
d) Regenerated, made alive together with Christ.​

I will type this slowly one more time. Positional Sanctification refers to God setting us apart in Christ spiritually, and so refers to a change in spiritual location, from being outside of Christ (in Adam, in the realm of darkness) to being transferred into the spiritual body of Christ.
There is no confusion. Now when a person is placed spiritually in Christ, they undergo the circumcision of Christ, and the result of removing the sin burden is justification, now it is just as if they had not, do not and will not accrue penalty for sinful thoughts and actions. They are justified.

There is no confusion, only your unfounded claim.

 

[OldRegular]

Only after a person is set apart in Christ (undergoes positional sanctification) does a person undergo the circumcision of Christ (Justification).

Here is what I presented: In the 1950"s I drove cars with "Dynaflow" or "Hydramatic" transmissions. Here we have the "Faithomatic" transmission turning the unjustified into the justified "automatically." The little step of being saved by grace is left out. Faith provides access to the grace in which we stand. How does that work? Not automatically, but it is God who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, and if He does, then He sets the person apart in Christ, where they undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation, justified through the removal of our sin burden.

How in the world did you arrive at that "stuff".

 

[Van]

Yet another aspersion from OR, devoid of topical comment.

Apparently OR is an advocate of "Faithomatic" transmission, but since he seldom presents an alternate view, who knows.

Folks, read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and accept God sets us apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit. Once that step is accepted, all the "faithomatic" transmissions go the way of dynaflow.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Yet another aspersion from OR, devoid of topical comment.

Apparently OR is an advocate of "Faithomatic" transmission, but since he seldom presents an alternate view, who knows.

Folks, read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and accept God sets us apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit. Once that step is accepted, all the "faithomatic" transmissions go the way of dynaflow.

Why can't you ever answer a question, instead of going on a repetitive diatribe heavy with sarcasm and insult and extremely light on facts, posts that never do anything other than irritate billions of electrons for no apparent reason?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yet another aspersion from OR, devoid of topical comment.

Apparently OR is an advocate of "Faithomatic" transmission, but since he seldom presents an alternate view, who knows.

Folks, read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and accept God sets us apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit. Once that step is accepted, all the "faithomatic" transmissions go the way of dynaflow.

just read the Bible van!

God saves us the very moment a sinner received jesus thru faith as their lord/saviour/messaih, at that moment fully justified by God/sealed and adopted by Holy spirit in Kingdom of chrsit, after THAT happens, we start the sauctification process!

 

[Van]

Hi TND, I was responding to "How in the world did you arrive at that "stuff". Thus a "question" heavy with sarcasm and insult and extremely light on facts.

However, I did actually answer it, i.e. Folks read 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Your post, therefore, was just another of the posts that never do anything other than irritate billions of electrons for no apparent reason.

To summarize,

1) Justification occurs when God places us spiritually in Christ.

2) God sets us apart in Christ through faith in the truth.

3) Thus we are justified by grace through faith.

4) We are justified when we undergo the circumcision of Christ where our sin burden is removed.

 

[Van]

Hi Yeshua1, so yet another "faithomatic" adherent, who does not actually read his or her bible.

God does not save us at the moment we believe in Christ. What about those who are like the second and third soils of Matthew 13. They received the gospel but did not go all in for Christ. So it is God who decides who believes, and if He does, then God puts them spiritually in Christ where they are saved because they are ensconced in the propitiatory shelter of Christ.

1) Outside of Christ, in Adam, in the realm of darkness equals being unsaved, condemned.
2) Inside of Christ, in Christ, in the kingdom of His Son equals being saved, justified, regenerated, and predestined for our bodily resurrection.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

However, I did actually answer it, i.e. Folks read 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

You mean this?

2 Thessalonians 2, (NASB)
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
​

Want to tell me where you get anything about justification out of that? Hint: Justification is not anctification. That's a whole 'nuther thing.

 

[Van]

Hi TND, personal incredulity does not address the issue.

1) Justification occurs when God places us spiritually in Christ.

2) God sets us apart in Christ through faith in the truth.

3) Thus we are justified by grace through faith.

4) We are justified when we undergo the circumcision of Christ where our sin burden is removed.

5) Outside of Christ, in Adam, in the realm of darkness equals being unsaved, condemned.

6) Inside of Christ, in Christ, in the kingdom of His Son equals being saved, justified, regenerated, and predestined for our bodily resurrection.

In the 1950"s I drove cars with "Dynaflow" or "Hydramatic" transmissions. Here we have the "Faithomatic" transmission turning the unjustified into the justified "automatically." The little step of being saved by grace is left out. Faith provides access to the grace in which we stand. How does that work? Not automatically, but it is God who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, and if He does, then He sets the person apart in Christ, where they undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation, justified through the removal of our sin burden.

Being set apart in Christ, the positional sanctification by the Spirit stated in 2 Thessalonians 2:13, results in justification, the circumcision of Christ.

 

[InTheLight]

it is God who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, and if He does, then He sets the person apart in Christ, where they undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation, justified through the removal of our sin burden.

And when does this salvation take place?

 

[Van]

Hi InTheLight, salvation occurs when God puts an individual spiritually in Christ. Once in, Christ says He will not cast out. Positional sanctification, being spiritually placed in Christ, occurs during our lifetime, and not before creation. When and if God credits our faith as righteousness, He sets us apart spiritually in Christ 2 Thessalonians 2:13.