The Doctrine of Original Sin

[skypair]

Can Christ take the guilt of me? YES
Is he not 100% man? YES
Did he take the guilt? YES
Did he die Spiritual? NO

WRONG!! Spiritual death" is separation from God. That is why I quoted Christ on the cross "My God, Why hast Thou forsaken Me."

Do his body die a physical death? YES

Christ does not die in the Spirit.

This is the locus of your error, James. "Spiritual death" is NOT non-existence (if it was, we would all be nihilists) -- it is separation from God. The SOUL exists forever. It is the soul's relationship to God that is the subject of its death.

skypair

 

[Rippon]

See, that's exactly why this issue is of great concern to us -- regardless of what evidence we present, you believe hyper-Calvinism above the scriptures. For us who wield it, the "sword" or Heb 4:12 has "discerned the thoughts and intents of your heart." And they are not to discover the truth but to promote the teaching of election as you understand it.

In response to post #205.

I have let a lot of Sp's silliness go the way of all trash. But this is too much to pass up. I am not a Hyper-Calvinist.First of all you can't even be honest about what a mainstream Calvinist holds to much less that rare bird -- the beliefs of a H-C.

And what's with you quoting Hebrews 4:12 in distorted form in that you and your cohorts have discerned my thoughts and intents?!You claim that my intention is not to discover the truth, but my view of election?!

You need knock it off Sp., but quick. Do you hear me?

 

[skypair]

You need knock it off Sp., but quick. Do you hear me?

You're right, rip. I apologize for bringing your name in as H-C and for claiming to know the thoughts and intents of your heart.

We'll just stick with "that is what H-C's believe and that is what the Bible says, OK?

And now if you will examine your conscience towards me, wouldn't you find that you have not responded rationally but instead, emotionally, to my posts? When was the last time you, in love, just focussed on the issues presented rather than the person, SP? I believe you would have to admit that you have not been dealing honestly with me either, right?

skypair

 

[Rippon]

You're right, rip. I apologize for bringing your name in as H-C and for claiming to know the thoughts and intents of your heart.

We'll just stick with "that is what H-C's believe and that is what the Bible says, OK?

And now if you will examine your conscience towards me, wouldn't you find that you have not responded rationally but instead, emotionally, to my posts? When was the last time you, in love, just focussed on the issues presented rather than the person, SP? I believe you would have to admit that you have not been dealing honestly with me either, right?

skypair

Thank you for your apology. That's a first.

However, you have deliberately lied on multiple occasions -- not just about me and my beliefs,but to many others here like James,and Pastor Larry( who has the good sense not to interact with you any longer). You have said some of the most outrageous things about our beliefs, we have responded and cleared up what we thought might have been a misinformed youngster. But then you have kept up a steady stream of nuttiness. Some of your utterances have been blasphemous. Now you expect everything to be sweetness and light because you have acknowledged one small area where you would have it that you only made a bad judgment.

I have responded to you in the manner I have because of your disgraceful conduct from the git-go Sp. You don't appear to have a conscience though you mention it theologically quite frequently.Your posts are characterized by their foolishness -- deliberate foolishness. You haven't inadvertently made a bad step here and there. You have with quite deliberate intention made some of the most outlandish claims against your brethren -- regularly.

I have and will continue to deal with you as honestly as I have in the past.For you to say that I have not dealt honestly with you is itself another lie.

 

[Jarthur001]

WRONG!! Spiritual death" is separation from God.

Please don't raise your voice.

Separation from God is but a very simple way to put it. I do not disagree with this. But this has nothing to do with Christ sinning. It has nothing to do with Christ taking our guilt


That is why I quoted Christ on the cross "My God, Why hast Thou forsaken Me."
The reason Christ said "My God, My God Why hast Thou forsaken Me?" is to drawn attention to the Old Testament so that they would know that this passage was talking about Him. If you would take the time and study Psalm 22 you would find this line...

"neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard"

This one line will not allow your view.

This is the locus of your error, James. "Spiritual death" is NOT non-existence (if it was, we would all be nihilists)

of course, and I never said man did not exist, nor did I say his soul was not there. It is dead to the things of God and will never respond to God. But being that he is alive to sin, man will respond to it.

Get it?

-- it is separation from God.

again..a very simple view which much can be added to.

The SOUL exists forever.

I'm glad you agree with me

It is the soul's relationship to God that is the subject of its death.

not subject to death, but is dead.

 

[skypair]

Thank you for your apology. That's a first.

However, you have deliberately lied on multiple occasions

That is not so. Have you ever been through the "perception exercise?" I have -- once at USAF Squadron Officer School. The point is not how you see yourself but how others see you. I am not lying about anybody. I am relating an outsider's perception of your views. It is hard to take. When, for instance, your daughter says you "expected too much" from them (your kids), you have to admit that 1) you expected too much or 2) you didn't communicate your feelings well. It may seem to be a slap in the face but don't say it's a lie. :tear:

But then you have kept up a steady stream of nuttiness. Some of your utterances have been blasphemous. Now you expect everything to be sweetness and light because you have acknowledged one small area where you would have it that you only made a bad judgment.

My "nutiness" is merely "the other side of the coin," so to speak. And I would venture to say my view is in the majority among Baptists, rip.

You have with quite deliberate intention made some of the most outlandish claims against your brethren -- regularly.

Again, be honest with yourself, rip. I am merely holding up a "mirror" for you to look at yourself from the word of God. If that offends you, then you have no one to blame but the man in the mirror.

You heard this blonde joke, haven't you? The blonde cop stops a blonde driver for speeding. The cop says, "I need to see you license," to which the blonde driver says, "What does it look like?" The cop says, "It's square and has your picture on it."

So the blonde driver looks through her purse and fishes out her little mirror, looks at it and thinks, "Oh, here it is." She hands it to the cop who, looking at it says, "Why didn't you tell me you were a policeman? If I'd known that, I wouldn't have started writing this ticket!" :laugh:

I know -- you're blonde, don't appreciate my humor, and can't figure out why I am critical of you in the first place!

I have and will continue to deal with you as honestly as I have in the past. For you to say that I have not dealt honestly with you is itself another lie.

Good! Then deal honestly with "all," "whosoever," "whole world," "sin nature," "regeneration," "total sovereignty," "TULIP," "regeneration precedes faith," "election," ... The list seems endless!

skypair

 

[skypair]

James,

It appears we CAN stand on "holy ground" together.

Psa 22:1-2 -- "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? 2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent." There was daytime and "night time"/darkness at the cross. Jesus was crying to God but God HAD forsaken Him.

"neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard"

Psa 22:24. Read it please. It is talking about the crucifixion completed -- the testimony of the redemption of the church! Yeah, AFTER the sacrifice was fulfilled God answered Jesus' prayer! Did that mean He wasn't forsaken? No.

skypair