The Doctrine of RPW Part II

[Salty]

Wow, I never thought RPW was such a major issue - I am truly learning a lot.

The reason I posted RPW initially was a subject that was brought up and someone mentioned RPW.

I know we have discuss this before - but let do in the light of RPW --
Does the New Testament provide for Children's Church (as separate from "adult" church)
and while we are at it - how about separate age-"appropriate" Sunday School - as well as
other youth activities, such as Bible camp, AWANA, RA/GA's, youth choirs, ect, ect....

and let the arguing begin ------ opps- discussion......

 

[Yeshua1]

Wow, I never thought RPW was such a major issue - I am truly learning a lot.

The reason I posted RPW initially was a subject was brought up and someone mentioned RPW.

I know we have discuss this before - but let do in the light p RPW --
Does the New Testament provide for Children's Church (as separate from "adult" church)
and while we are at it - how about separate age-"appropriate" Sunday School - as well as
other youth activities, such as Bible camp, AWANA, RA/GA's, youth choirs, ect, ect....

and let the arguing begin ------ opps- discussion......

Teaching of the children on God would be in the household in the NT, but by extension would also move in local church!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Does the New Testament provide for Children's Church (as separate from "adult" church)
and while we are at it - how about separate age-"appropriate" Sunday School - as well as
other youth activities, such as Bible camp, AWANA, RA/GA's, youth choirs, ect, ect....

If you look at Nehemiah 8:2-3, the meeting was for those who 'could hear with understanding.' Young children were not required to attend, yet they need to be taught in an age-appropriate way (eg. Deuteronomy 6:20-25). The chief responsibility for such teaching lies with the parents, but it is doubtless appropriate for churches to add to that.

I don't know what AWANA or RA/GA is. Singing is required in the N.T. (Ephesians 5:19-20) and if the children are too young to attend the main service, then there is no reason why they should not sing to the Lord, with the aim that by singing Bible truths, they may come to memorize them better. But as soon as the children are old enough to understand, they should attend the services. I do not see teen-age services anywhere in the Bible.

 

[rlvaughn]

Wow, I never thought RPW was such a major issue - I am truly learning a lot.

The reason I posted RPW initially was a subject that was brought up and someone mentioned RPW.

I know we have discuss this before - but let do in the light of RPW --
Does the New Testament provide for Children's Church (as separate from "adult" church)
and while we are at it - how about separate age-"appropriate" Sunday School - as well as
other youth activities, such as Bible camp, AWANA, RA/GA's, youth choirs, ect, ect....

I suspect people endorsing the regulative principle will come down on both sides of part of this, since the regulative principle understands teaching and singing as part of the worship prescribed by God, but may not see it as prescribing the details of how it is done.

I say no to most all you mention, based on a combination of the regulative principle, viewing apostolic practice as normative, and having an ecclesiology that sees one congregation of baptized believers regardless of their ages.

 

[Salty]

I don't know what AWANA or RA/GA is. e.

AWANA is a week-night youth club for kids age 3-18. Emphasis is on Bible memorization based on doctrine
(for example - there may be a section on eternal security - thus the memory verses would focus on that subject)

RA's and GA are mission groups in Southern Baptist churches

 

[Jerome]

Walter Chantry, Small Children at Worship Services

“In our church, parents usually begin to bring their children into our services at the age of two…Two-year-olds are not old enough to understand why they must be still and quiet”

“The only way to establish obedience in a child is to punish each and every wilful disobedience to a command. It begins when the parent says ‘no’ to touching an expensive lamp. If the child touches it, the fingers should be smacked hard enough that a few repeat punishments will bring obedience. Each time the child asserts his will against a command he must be made to obey…the rod cannot be spared or the child will be spoiled and parents will not have their children under control.”

“If this pattern of enforcing commands is established at home, then bringing a child to church is merely a new series of orders given. When the child has been told to be quiet, if he speaks out, a hasty exit to another room for a spanking will make the point…It is indispensable to the parents’ good that they worship…the only issue with the child is that Mom and Dad have commanded submission. This is done with young children only the by the rod (by spanking). It is …the foundation of self-control in later life.”

 

[Marooncat79]

In worship

Children can sing
Listen to prayers
See the importance of baptism and communion
Possibly even follow along in reading
Recite the Apostles Creed

There is absolutely no reason that at least by 2-3 grade that children should not be in church.

I personally have never seen an average Youth Group much less a good one

The “generation gap in Church” would be much less prevalent if Youth were actually exposed to older Xians

 

[Reformed]

@Salty , @rlvaughn is correct. Subscribers to the RPW come down on both sides of children's church and Sunday school. I am not trying to be pedantic, so I will keep the following simple. The question to keep in mind is "What does the Bible teach about corporate worship?" In the end, that is the only pertinent question. As children of God, we have a responsibility to be obedient to God's precepts and commands. In the end, each of us must be convinced in our own minds.

Personally, I am not a fan of children's church, although I will not break fellowship over the issue. As I look at the New Testament model, there is not even a hint of dividing ages by keeping children out of the worship service. All the arguments in favor of children's church are rooted in pragmatism. No one can say how early a child starts developing memories or cognitive understanding of language. If an infant or young child starts to cry or misbehave, one of the parents can take the child out of the sanctuary. I think there is a high value of children watching their parents worship instead of being separated from them for 45-60 minutes.

As far as Sunday school, it is not corporate worship, so it is not an RPW issue in my opinion.

 

[Reformed]

@Salty , as far as AWANA, Word of Life Clubs, or even Vacation Bible School, they are not an RPW issue either.

 

[Yeshua1]

AWANA is a week-night youth club for kids age 3-18. Emphasis is on Bible memorization based on doctrine
(for example - there may be a section on eternal security - thus the memory verses would focus on that subject)

RA's and GA are mission groups in Southern Baptist churches

Many Baptist churches would support mid week Awana programs!

 

[Yeshua1]

@Salty , @rlvaughn is correct. Subscribers to the RPW come down on both sides of children's church and Sunday school. I am not trying to be pedantic, so I will keep the following simple. The question to keep in mind is "What does the Bible teach about corporate worship?" In the end, that is the only pertinent question. As children of God, we have a responsibility to be obedient to God's precepts and commands. In the end, each of us must be convinced in our own minds.

Personally, I am not a fan of children's church, although I will not break fellowship over the issue. As I look at the New Testament model, there is not even a hint of dividing ages by keeping children out of the worship service. All the arguments in favor of children's church are rooted in pragmatism. No one can say how early a child starts developing memories or cognitive understanding of language. If an infant or young child starts to cry or misbehave, one of the parents can take the child out of the sanctuary. I think there is a high value of children watching their parents worship instead of being separated from them for 45-60 minutes.

As far as Sunday school, it is not corporate worship, so it is not an RPW issue in my opinion.

I would just say that what would be age appropriate teaching for a 5 year olds would not be suitable for an adult member....