The Doctrine of Separation

[rdwhite]

My wife and I were compelled, to attend a Roman Catholic funeral a few years ago, and the Spiritual darkness was so pervasive, that we have to leave.

SL, that discernment is good, but also realize that not all Roman Catholic buildings will be that way, or at least that not that strong of a presence. I've been in several that were fine and others that were seriously wicked. That discernment of darkness may sometimes appear in the most unlikely of places.

One of the strongest and most memorable times in my life caught me completely off guard. I pulled into the parking lot, walked up to the building with my wife, and as I opened the door, it hit me like a brick wall. By the time we finally left that Bible Baptist Church south of Fort Worth, I felt like a stump-broke mule. I should have let the door close, got back in my car, and left.

 

[stilllearning]

As for some of the things on C4K's list(those having to do with entertainment), the Bible does have something to say about them.......

Titus 1:15
“Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving
[is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”

When it comes to TV or the internet or movies, etc. that are all dependent upon the heart of the person, that is using them.

If your wicked, you will use these things, for wicked purposes.

But if your walking in the Spirit, you can use these same things, in a God honoring way.

 

[LeBuick]

So when Scripture says we are not to look on a woman to lust after her, wouldn't that be something about going to movies? I think it would be hard to argue it isn't at least about some type of movies. I think too many people do "concordance theology." That is they look at their concordance to see if something is mentioned, and when they don't find it they assume it is alright.

Lol, you associate going to the movies with lusting after a woman? Now that is truly funny. If that's your weakness you certainly don't need a movie to be tempted. Walking down the street would be enough of a challenge to where a movie couldn't do anymore damage. I believe that's when Jesus said, "it is better to pluck out your right eye etc...".

You know, Scripture doesn't say anything about the SI swimsuit edition. Does that mean that someone who doesn't look at it is too separated? Of course not. So I think we need some more rigorous thinking.

Depends on why they don't look at SI. I personally have no problem with looking at SI and not lusting after the swimsuit models. They are all to young and skinny for my taste anyway. If SI it too much a temptation to any Christian then the problem and solution is far deeper than avoiding SI.

Also, how will one know they have grown spiritually beyond lusting if they are never in a potentially tempting situation? Conquering sin is not to say I have cemented myself in isolation it is to say I have been tested, I have been in the fire, I have been in the storm and I came out like pure gold... Go back and read Job again...

I use myself for an example, I was a drunkard. So much so that I came very close to alcohol poisoning. I tried many times to stop drinking on my own but always went back to the bottle. One day i got so drunk I missed a preaching engagement. and I prayed that night and promised the Lord that if he heals me from that thorn in my side I would faithfully serve him until I die. I haven't desired a drink since that prayer.

I don't fear a bar or a liquor store because I have no desire to drink. My wife has had wine in the house because she likes to have a glass with dinner once a year or so. That bottle has never tempted me. That is what being healed means in my view.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi rdwhite

It’s a shame, that you can’t trust the name on a Church building any more.

 

[LeBuick]

As for some of the things on C4K's list(those having to do with entertainment), the Bible does have something to say about them.......

When it comes to TV or the internet or movies, etc. that are all dependent upon the heart of the person, that is using them.

If your wicked, you will use these things, for wicked purposes.

But if your walking in the Spirit, you can use these same things, in a Godly honoring way.

Perhaps Paul was saying if your mind is wicked you will find wickedness in those things. If your mind is pure you will find purity in those things. So I agree with your analogy that a person walking in the Spirit can fund purity in the devils own backyard. Perhaps that's why Jesus built His Church right outside the gates of hell...

 

[Pastor Larry]

Lol, you associate going to the movies with lusting after a woman?

You laugh? Why? I never associated going to movies with lusting after a woman. Perhaps you should go back and read closer.

What I did was appeal to the well known fact that some movies are designed to arouse lust by sensuality, provocativeness, and outright sexuality. You said the Bible doesn't address going to movies but I think that is demonstrably wrong given that the Bible addresses many things found in movies.

Also, how will one know they have grown spiritually beyond lusting if they are never in a potentially tempting situation?

So you think that we should expose ourselves to temptation to see if we are growing? Do you not think that part of biblical maturity is not exposing ourselves to temptation?

I think the Bible goes for great wisdom in these matters and I can't help but think your post might fall short of biblical wisdom.

 

[Pastor Larry]

When it comes to TV or the internet or movies, etc. that are all dependent upon the heart of the person, that is using them.

If your wicked, you will use these things, for wicked purposes.

But if your walking in the Spirit, you can use these same things, in a God honoring way.

Provided you are talking about the medium itself, you have some merit (though some media are inherently less capable of serious communication). However, recognize that some things are inherently evil and cannot be used for good purposes no matter what the heart of the individual. Titus 1:15 is often misused in this respect.

 

[sag38]

Not all movies are designed to elicit lust, etc. One must be discerning. To simply say that one cannot go to the movies period is ignorant and legalism. Personally, I don't look at the Sports Illustrated Swim Suit issue but I do read other issues from time to time. Again it's called discernment.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Pastor Larry

You said.....

“Titus 1:15 is often misused in this respect.”

I would sure hate to be accused of “misusing Scripture”:

When I said......

When it comes to TV or the internet or movies, etc. that are all dependent upon the heart of the person, that is using them.

If your wicked, you will use these things, for wicked purposes.

But if your walking in the Spirit, you can use these same things, in a God honoring way.

In light of.........

Titus 1:15
“Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving
[is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”

What I am talking about is the fact that those that are walking in the Spirit, will watch TV, and surf the internet, and go to the movies, and not watch or listen to anything that is “inherently evil”.

 

[Pastor Larry]

What I am talking about is the fact that those that are walking in the Spirit, will watch TV, and surf the internet, and go to the movies, and not watch or listen to anything that is “inherently evil”.

I assumed so, but just wanted to clarify.

Not all movies are designed to elicit lust, etc. One must be discerning. To simply say that one cannot go to the movies period is ignorant and legalism. Personally, I don't look at the Sports Illustrated Swim Suit issue but I do read other issues from time to time. Again it's called discernment.

Of course (though it would be hard to find many movies that don't have some element of sensuality in them). However, I would stop short of such charges as "ignorant" and "legalism" because 1) they are misguided, and 2) they are ungracious. Some of the most intelligent and gracious people I know believe that one should never go to movies, and they have good reasons for saying such (though I disagree).

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Pastor Larry

Just so you and everyone else knows;
(The two quotes, you included in your last response, were from two different people.)

Stilllearning said......

“What I am talking about is the fact that those that are walking in the Spirit, will watch TV, and surf the internet, and go to the movies, and not watch or listen to anything that is “inherently evil”.

And sag38 said.......

“Not all movies are designed to elicit lust, etc. One must be discerning. To simply say that one cannot go to the movies period is ignorant and legalism. Personally, I don't look at the Sports Illustrated Swim Suit issue but I do read other issues from time to time. Again it's called discernment.”

 

[LeBuick]

So you think that we should expose ourselves to temptation to see if we are growing?

Just as Jesus did in the wilderness... It's not as much exposing yourself as it is not being afraid or letting the potential of sin direct your path. Where I go the Lord goes with me so I need not be afraid of temptation.

Do you not think that part of biblical maturity is not exposing ourselves to temptation?

Again, you mean like Jesus did in the wilderness?

Mt 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Question, do you think Jesus got this reputation hanging around the Church? No sir, it is clear he hung around the publicans and sinners. Yet we know he was a man without sin. How can we bring sinners to Christ unless we go where the sinner is? How can one claim to have overcome a fault unless they be tested and do not fall?

It's easy to say I love my bother when I'm alone and he's done me no harm, but how about when my brother does something I don't like? The test is can I love him then... Faith that's not tested is not faith, it's lip service.

 

[Wesjr]

After I got saved and joined the church, I was taught I must live a separated life. No drinking any alcoholic beverage, no dancing, no music other than gospel, no gambling, no pants for women, etc. After about 3 years of study, I now believe this; We are to be separated from sin, even though at times we will sin. We should not become drunk(a sin) and understand alcohol is dangerous, yet if I want a glass of wine at supper it's ok. If I danced with woman, with the wrong desires it would be wrong, but dancing with my wife at a wedding reception is ok or dancing with my mother at her wedding aniversary is ok. Some music, some TV, some movies, some internet is wrong, yet not all. Example- if a country music song is prompting drunkenness, adulttry, fornication than I would turn tthe channel, but if the song was about the love two people had for one another, than ok, the bible says a woman's dress should be modest, it doesn't say no pants, gambling would be wrong if I was spending next weeks lunch money, yet if I spend $100 on Saturday at the boat, it's not any worse than spending $100 at a baseball game, fishing trip, etc.
I wouldn't be a close friend to someone whom was a drunk, adulttress, liar, but I would witness to him. How can someone who is so strick on separation be for McCain- he cheated on his first wife, fell in love with Cindy while still married to first wife, got a divorce, has lied about his postion or positions on issues, the McCain's company is the third largest distributor for Busch beer.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Just as Jesus did in the wilderness... It's not as much exposing yourself as it is not being afraid or letting the potential of sin direct your path. Where I go the Lord goes with me so I need not be afraid of temptation.




Again, you mean like Jesus did in the wilderness?

For my dollar, I think commands about "fleeing" are pretty clear. I see no reason to hang around sinful temptations unnecessarily. I don't think Jesus did either.

Question, do you think Jesus got this reputation hanging around the Church? No sir, it is clear he hung around the publicans and sinners. Yet we know he was a man without sin. How can we bring sinners to Christ unless we go where the sinner is? How can one claim to have overcome a fault unless they be tested and do not fall?

I am not against going where the sinner is. I am merely saying we should be wise in exposing ourselves to temptation.

It's easy to say I love my bother when I'm alone and he's done me no harm, but how about when my brother does something I don't like? The test is can I love him then... Faith that's not tested is not faith, it's lip service.

I am not for loving bothers. Brothers on the other hand should be loved, but I am not sure how that is applicable here.

But my only point is that we should be wise in temptation.