• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The earth is the center of creation!

Helen

<img src =/Helen2.gif>
Nope -- and what you 'believe' or 'would believe' has nothing to do with it! The Bible uses terminology that expresses what is seen from earth. However, if you read the links, you will also find that the math -- as done from earth -- shows that the geocentric model is not correct. That does not change the way we view things, however! Or the way they have been viewed for a long time.

I don't know how much more clearly I can explain it. I do suggest you read the links, though.
 
T

Travelsong

Guest
...and I don't know how much more clearly it can be explained to you. Yes, the Bible read literally indicates that it does confirm a geocentric model. It doesn't just use terminology to describe sunsets and sunrises, it also describes the sun in motion around the earth.The only reason, and I mean the only reason you view Scripture as figurative language with respect to the relationship of the sun and the earth is because science has made it necessary.I have no idea why you wish to dance around this issue, but the plain truth is the plain truth.There simply is no reason for you to ignore that elephant in your living room.
 

Helen

<img src =/Helen2.gif>
And there is no reason for you to ignore that people refer to things the way they see them. A number of people have used biblical terminology to support geocentrism, but it only supports it as much as our weathermen do today when they tell us what time the sun rises and sets!
 
T

Travelsong

Guest
Absolutely Helen. What you are ignoring is that there is a reason why we know the various Biblical writers as you put it "refer to things the way they see them". It's called science. Without science we would all still believe that the sun revolved around the earth.We would all believe that the writers of Scripture were making literal statements about the nature of the universe, when in fact all they were doing is as you said, referring to things the way they saw them.

The bridge that allowed the transition in thinking from a literal interpretation to a non-literal interpretation was science. Nothing else. It wasn't some sudden and spontaneous reinterpretation of Scripture. The great leaders of our body didn't one day decide to review their understanding of the relevant passages. They caved to the pressure of science. Our understanding of what Scripture is telling us has been shaped by our understanding of the world and universe around us. You can fight it and fight it and fight it totoh and nail, but there it remains right in front of you.All that you have to do at this point is acknowledge it. obfuscation benefits no one.
 

Helen

<img src =/Helen2.gif>
Oh Glory! What I am trying to say is that Scripture does not say one thing scientifically about it! It was science that claimed geocentricity and then science that claimed heliocentricity. People just used the Bible to try to support what they thought. But the Bible is not saying anything about it!

The Bible simply describes the way the sun and moon look via the earth. Taking appearances as literal reality (in reading it or otherwise) is known to lead to error. The Bible makes no pretense of presenting the scientific relationship between the earth and the sun. If you want to read it that way, fine, but it was science which first said one thing and then said another. The Bible just talks about how it is seen. If you are going to credit (and rightfully so) science with heliocentricity, then you will also have to blame science (and rightly so) for geocentricity.

Science changes with added data -- hopefully!

Meanwhile, the sun still rises and sets.
 

The Galatian

Active Member
But Martin Luther asserted that scripture required that the Earth not move. In fact, it says the Earth doesn't move.

But it does.

It's only a problem for those who put a literal interpretation on it.
 

timothy 1769

New Member
hey, maybe the earth IS the unmovable center of the universe. is it truly impossible, or does it just make the necessary math and physics harder?
 

Meatros

New Member
I gave 18 + examples (18 links, in which some links had up to 5 separate examples) and you pick two, neither one you really give much of a reason as to why they "don't count".
 

Helen

<img src =/Helen2.gif>
Galatian, get over your hangup with Luther. He did not write the Bible. He did, contrary to the Roman Catholic church, however, decide to pay closer attention to it!

Meatros, you stay with what you think. Don't worry about what was really going on. But the next time you describe something by its appearance to you, be very careful -- someone might thing you mean it literally....
 

The Galatian

Active Member
Galatian, get over your hangup with Luther. He did not write the Bible.
No, but he did exercise editorial rights, in trimming to his liking. Well, almost. He never persuaded his followers that James had to go, too.

He did, contrary to the Roman Catholic church, however, decide to pay closer attention to it!
Perhaps that wasn't a good thing, if that led him to think that the Bible says the Earth doesn't move in a literal sense.

You do agree that the Earth moves, do you not?
 

Meatros

New Member
Originally posted by Helen:
Meatros, you stay with what you think. Don't worry about what was really going on. But the next time you describe something by its appearance to you, be very careful -- someone might thing you mean it literally....
Actually Helen, the evidence is against you on this as well (as with evolution); I *used* to be a YEC. I used to be a rather loud one to.

Am I any longer? No. So, once again, you are wrong Helen.
 

Helen

<img src =/Helen2.gif>
LOL -- am not wrong because you are no longer YEC! You were YEC for the wrong reasons. You are not evolutionist for the wrong reasons.

Hopefully, with time, you'll get to some real reasons. Either way...
 

Meatros

New Member
Originally posted by Helen:
LOL -- am not wrong because you are no longer YEC! You were YEC for the wrong reasons. You are not evolutionist for the wrong reasons.

Hopefully, with time, you'll get to some real reasons. Either way...
Pretending you know me? :rolleyes:
 

Helen

<img src =/Helen2.gif>
...only from your posts... I'm responding to what you are saying and what that indicates about your knowledge, maturity, and character. If what you are presenting is not a good picture of you, please change your presentation.
 

ColoradoFB

New Member
Click to view: Pale Blue Dot Photo

Upon seeing a photo of the Earth from the Voyager spacecraft, as a few tiny pixels in a vast sea of space, Dr. Carl Sagan made an observation that gives us much to think about:

"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.

"The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light.

"Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

Pale Blue Dot Photo
 

Helen

<img src =/Helen2.gif>
Yes, and of all the billions of fish alive in the seas and lakes and ponds and aquariums, there are eight silly little ones of almost no dollar value whatever which I care for very much because they belong to us.

Amazing, isn't it?
 
T

Travelsong

Guest
All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy,
beg, borrow or steal
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come
and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.


"There is no dark side of the moon really.
Matter of fact it's all dark."
 

Meatros

New Member
Originally posted by Helen:
...only from your posts... I'm responding to what you are saying and what that indicates about your knowledge, maturity, and character. If what you are presenting is not a good picture of you, please change your presentation.
Sure you are Helen. You know, the only people I see you chastising are the evolutionists on this board. I haven't seen you *once* chastise the people who are actually *lieing* about other members (among other things). So if it makes you feel all good inside for picking at my frustration, then I say good for you, I hope you enjoy it.

Keep in mind that you are picking the plank out of my eyes while avoiding your own, or do you think you are being entirely mature on this board?
 
Top