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The Elect, Need a clear definition of....

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Wes Outwest, May 6, 2005.

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  1. RON35951

    RON35951 New Member

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    correction- Bakers Theological Dictionary is not public domain and is copyrighted. I hope I did not violate the copyright in my above post. If I did I apologize to Baker Book House Company.
     
    #41 RON35951, May 9, 2005
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    It is a great post anyhow! Thanks.
     
    #42 OldRegular, May 9, 2005
  3. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    There is absolutly no way, no procedure, no method, no interpretation that will identify the elect.
     
    #43 billwald, May 9, 2005
  4. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    The standard, common, and working definition of "grace" is "unmerited favor."
     
    #44 billwald, May 9, 2005
  5. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    If the definition of Grace is "Unmerited favor", and I agree that it is, then someone please explain HOW grace saves! What is the mechanism of Salvation performed by Grace? How does it work?
     
    #45 Wes Outwest, May 9, 2005
  6. RON35951

    RON35951 New Member

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    God saves us even though we do not deserve it. That is Grace.

    There is no mechanism, God just shows us unmerited favor and draws us to him.
     
    #46 RON35951, May 9, 2005
  7. RON35951

    RON35951 New Member

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    God saves us even though we do not deserve it. That is Grace.

    That is what makes us Elect.

    God desires that all would come to him, but we are sinners and run from God just as Adam did. No one will come to God through there on accord, because our will is so stained with sin.

    Because our God is a just and merciful God, he provided a payment for our sins and draws thse that he chooses to him. These are to be witnesses to the rest of the world of Gods love and mercy, but also his justice and hatred of sin.

    Sadly the world will not listen. But it is not God that sends them to hell it is thier on love of thier sinful desires. God provided payment through his Son's sacrifice on the cross and he has provided witnesses of this sacrifice through those that he calls to him, but mankind has rejected God, his grace and his mercy. Only the Elect that he has chosen as his messengers will be saved.

    Thank God that he has chosen you as a messenger and work hard to warn the world of his impending judgement. If we cannot keep them from Hell they should at least have to wrestle our arms from around thier knees to get thier.
     
    #47 RON35951, May 9, 2005
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    WES, OUTWEST

    Just ask yourself the simple question; WHO SAVES? Then perhaps you will have an answer to your question. Until YOU understand WHO SAVES you will never understand GRACE.

    OldRegular
     
    #48 OldRegular, May 9, 2005
  9. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    That's not an answer, that is a dodge!

    Since by your answer, you are indicating that you know all about Grace, tell me how does grace actually save?
     
    #49 Wes Outwest, May 10, 2005
  10. RON35951

    RON35951 New Member

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    God saves, grace is an attribute of God.
     
    #50 RON35951, May 10, 2005
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    #51 OldRegular, May 10, 2005
  12. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Without God's Grace you would not only be lost, you would never have lived!
     
    #52 Wes Outwest, May 10, 2005
  13. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    Grace equals unmerited favor.

    The mechanism? Divine providence, love, mercy, and longsuffering. God cannot be defined--especially using material words.

    God cannot be defined in human terms.

    All we can do is bow in awe and declare: My God, how great thou art.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
    #53 Bro. James, May 10, 2005
  14. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    That is THE ANSWER!

    Thank you RON35951!

    GRACE is an attribute, Something true of the one possessing it. Grace is behavioral in nature, describing the behavior of the one possessing it. As with all attributes there is no power in the attribute, the power resides IN and with the one possessing the attribute.

    So Grace does not save! God does. Paul makes that statement in Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by God's grace, you are saved through faith, and not of yourselves, "Being SAVED" is the gift of God, Not of works lest any man should boast! God's grace is the mode He is in for us to get saved, it is not a tool that does the saving, because without it's possessor, Grace is powerless to do anything.
     
    #54 Wes Outwest, May 10, 2005
  15. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    That's nice Bro. James, but it misses the wall the target affixed to! We do have words, words have meanings, and often in religion, meanings are nothing more than emotions assigned to them by "learned scholars". That's what yours sounds like.

    We can describe God with all the words the scriptures contain about him. It is through the scriptures that God reveals himself to man! Scriptures are words that have meanings.

    Is it easy? NO! It is indeed quite difficult and much study is necessary to make the connections and end up with the truth. One must overcome the emotions, to have a clear understanding.
     
    #55 Wes Outwest, May 10, 2005
  16. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    Try this for a mechanism of grace:

    the shed blood of Jesus Christ applied to the mercy seat--the just for the unjust--the Lamb of God, slain from before the foundation of the world.
    Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. The wages of sin is death--the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ,the Lord.

    A little child can understand this--many "learned" scholars stumble at such theology. See John Ch. 3: Jesus and Nicodemus--a Master of Israel. What did Jesus tell Him? "You must be born again".

    That applies to all of us--"learned" or not.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
    #56 Bro. James, May 10, 2005
  17. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    What you describe are events that take place because God's grace is present, and all of that is just fine, but it doesn't say how grace works! It doesn't say that Grace has any power to save.
     
    #57 Wes Outwest, May 10, 2005
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Originally posted by RON35951:
    Response posted by Wes, Outwest:
    Response posted by OldRegular:
    WES,OUTWEST
    On an an earlier post I asked:


    Your response was no response:

    From your response to RON35951 it appears that I was correct in questioning if your posts on this Forum were just to create dissension. Throughout this thread and others you have consistently argued that it is man’s faith that saves.

    You earlier argued, perhaps on another thread, that God had no Faith to give in response to the passage of Scripture Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:. It is refreshing to see you admit that grace is an attribute of God.

    As far as I know no one on this thread who has responded to your posts has claimed anything other than that God Saves. I tried to elicit that response from you in the post quoted above but had no success. I am glad you have finally seen the light. Hold on to it.
     
    #58 OldRegular, May 10, 2005
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    By the way Wes I am glad you read some posts as you did that of RON35951 who stated in his 11:18 AM post "God Saves". Had you read my earlier post [8:44 AM] you would have read: "Why is it so difficult for you to believe that God, supernaturally, can save one who is lost and that He does so simply out of His unmerited favor?" Apparently the sentence had too many words! :D
     
    #59 OldRegular, May 10, 2005
  20. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Not what you think! You have consistantly stated the we are saved by grace. Now you change your tune and say that God saves, supernaturally. Everything God does is supernatural!

    Do you agree that Grace has no power to save and that grace is an attribute of the one possessing it?
     
    #60 Wes Outwest, May 10, 2005
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