The Elect, Need a clear definition of....

Faith is not a gift of God, it is what man must possess in order to be saved.

Faith is kind of like a "mark", when one believes one becomes marked for salvation! When one dies the natural death, the faith mark stays with the spirit that departs the flesh. It is by that mark that we who believe in Jesus are separated like the sheep from the goats.

We come to faith while God's grace remains present for mankind. Yes we may even die this natural life under God's grace, but we are not saved BY grace, we Are saved by God!

 

You don't read very well. (1) I have on numerous occasions stated loudly and clearly that it is God that saves, and he only saves those who have faith in him.

(2)I have stated my belief that we are saved THROUGH faith, and that faith is not a gift of God but comes to man by means of Knowledge provided by "hearing the word of God". Man is made that way, with the ability to develop faith in virtually anything he can believe.

(3)The only time I've said that we are saved by faith is when I am quoting someone who said it.

I have said at times that we are saved by our faith in God, but that We do the faithing, God does the saving.

Let me clear it up for you...again. God saves no one who lacks faith in Him.

Sin is not a factor in man's salvation because God the son paid the penalty for sin, so that man can, THROUGH FAITH, have everlasting life...Salvation!

I have no contention whatever that Man is the author of his salvation. Not one miniscule jot or tittle of man's salvation is the result of man works. However, and conversely, man cannot be saved unless man has as a possession, Faith in God. FAITH cannot come from God because God has none to give. But he certainly gives us every reason and motivation to have faith, and he gives us the source of Knowledge that produces in us the required faith for our salvation.

No sir you err because you do not understand that throughout the old testament, and the new testament, it is ONLY those with faith that are saved! No one lacking faith gets saved.

You err, when you fail to recognise that faith is strictly Human. There is no faith requirement for any other species in God's creation, and God has no faith to give to man.

You err, when you fail to see the truth in scripture regarding human salvation, (that is, salvation OF humans, not salvation produced BY humans).

Regardless of whether or not you capitalise salvation, one is either completely saved or one is not saved at all! There is no big vs little salvation!

 

OldRegular,

Simple to confound the wise.

God said from Genesis to Revelation, that Salvation is THROUGH FAITH! meaning that faith is the Condition of man, whereby man is saved. The MEANS (the one who performs salvation) IS God! The Time of God's Salvation is while God's grace toward man is present! Thus we are saved by GOD in His grace, THROUGH our FAITH! Salvation is the Gift of God. Salvation, unlike Grace, Faith, Mercy, Justice, etc, is that which God does give to man in a form that can be recieved, and is truly a gift that man can receive.

In Ephesians 2:8 The Gift of God is SALVATION! In Johh 3:16 The gift of God, to those who believe in HIS son, is SALVATION! Abraham's Faith was counted to him as Righteousness and it is only the righteous who are Saved by God throughout the OT! FAITH in the Old Testament is the SAME as FAITH in the New Testament! It is the condition of the human spirit! The human spirit which has "the knowledge of good and evil" is "Born Again", by hearing the word of God and believing. The change in old nature and new nature is manifest in the deeds and demeanor of the one who is so changed, and that change comes out of Knowledge. God said, "For lack of knowledge, my people perish".

The Gift of God is His Son, "the living Word", who taught certain men whom we know as the apostles, given by The Father to the Son, John 17, and the gift included the Teachings of the Apostles given to us in writing.

Purchase Salvation? Are You out of your mind? You cannot purchase that which is given, the giver does not accept "exchange" for his Gift of Salvation, else it is NOT A GIFT! But instead is a commodity of exchange. Salvation is the unilateral gift of God given by Him to those who are wearing pink shirts, Not blue, or green or any other color, just pink! Pink is the color of our shirt that draws God's attention to us and makes him want to give us his gift of SALVATION.

"Pink shirt" in the above paragraph represents FAITH. We may well have to "purchase" faith through our effort to gain the Knowledge that keeps us from Perishing. Bible study is a work, but the faith gained by bible study is not a work it is the payoff of doing the work. Listening to boring preachers may well be a work too! Doing the things that reinforce our "faith" are works too, but the faith is not a work, it is the reward for doing those things that are works. The works that we do, allow us to purchase the pink shirt, which worn and kept spotless is what God sees in us for which he gives us the Gift of Salvation!

 

Do you see in this passage Paul saying that the one who receives the gift of the word of wisdom as not having faith?
How about the one who gifted with administrations?
How about the one gifted with healing?
How about the miracle worker? Etc.

Are they deprived of FAITH because the spirit gives a "gift of Faith" to another?

Get real! You are not rightly dividing the word of truth!

Paul is illustrating the DIVERSITY of conditions that comprise the Church. The spirit is the Christian Spirit, that which distinguishes Christianity from all of the rest of the worlds religions. From the Christian spirit come all of the Gifts that make the Christian church what it is.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. All, no matter what other gifts they may have been given, must arrive at FAITH in the same manner as all others, and that is through hearing the Word of God!

 

I am disputing YOUR INTERPRETATION of scripture, nothing more!

 

NO! You fail to communicate the truth of what I've said. Faith is not what you do, it is what you have as a result of what you do with what you've been given! We've been given the Holy Word of God. We are supposed to Hear the Word of God, and from hearing, establish faith in what we've heard!

Why do you insist on failing to understand?

 

Where do you find that it is not?

Faith Cannot be a work, else God would not require it of us for our salvation! Salvation is "not of works lest any man should boast".

If as I have stated, faith is not a work, then what is it? Faith is not a gift even though Paul in a scripture that you missuse says that the Spirit gives it to some. By the way, Paul is describing the church in that scripture and not the general population of the world.

Faith is not a Work, and is not a gift, have you got any other ideas of what it could be? Think it through before replying with your usual!

 

That is TRUE! Faith is a condition of the human spirit. It is the result of Hearing the Word of God which was given to us for the purpose of us gaining Knowledge of the Holy. It is that knowledge that when "taken into the brain" is used by the spirit to form FAITH. Yes, man can have faith in virtually anything that he finds "believeable". One has to "hear" before on can believe, one has to have initial belief before the Spirit condition is changed from doubt to faith.

Paul is addressing the functionality of the church, do you have any other references that declare that God gives faith to man?

If you truly do not understand the natural, how will you ever understand the Spiritual?

 

You obviously do not understand the natural or you would understand that the natural man gets faith, possesses faith, and can increase in Faith. NO I am not talking about Faith in God, I am talking about faith, human faith, the only kind of faith there is!

You want to say that faith only comes from God. Well where did the natural man get his faith in money, in his "natural abilities", in his spouse, in his job, in his...? Where does natural man get faith?

If you use your 'natural man' ability to think, I'm confident you will recognize that, "Yes, man does have faith outside of religion". If he didn't, absolutely no human accomplishments would be made, as every human accomplishment begins with an idea and the faith to make it a reality.

NOW, WHERE DOES NATURAL MAN GET FAITH, IF FAITH IS A GIFT OF GOD?