The Elect, Need a clear definition of....

You obviously do not understand the natural or you would understand that the natural man gets faith, possesses faith, and can increase in Faith. NO I am not talking about Faith in God, I am talking about faith, human faith, the only kind of faith there is!

You want to say that faith only comes from God. Well where did the natural man get his faith in money, in his "natural abilities", in his spouse, in his job, in his...? Where does natural man get faith?

If you use your 'natural man' ability to think, I'm confident you will recognize that, "Yes, man does have faith outside of religion". If he didn't, absolutely no human accomplishments would be made, as every human accomplishment begins with an idea and the faith to make it a reality.

NOW, WHERE DOES NATURAL MAN GET FAITH, IF FAITH IS A GIFT OF GOD? </font>[/QUOTE]Wes, Outwest

I owe you an apology. All the time I thought we were talking about Faith in God, that results in God imputing righteousness to man, now I find out you were talking about something else entirely. I am so sorry.

However, may I say again that the Faith in God is not a natural attribute of mankind. It is unfortunate that all too often Faith in God is compared to the choices that people make in life. The argument is as follows:

“You are always exercising faith in your life, you couldn’t live a day without doing so. You exercise faith in your spouse, your money, your stocks and bonds, your posessions, etc., etc., etc..You exercise faith when you go out to start your car. You exercise faith when you board an airplane. Just as you believe that the car will start and the airplane will arrive safely, why don’t you believe in Jesus Christ as Savior?”

In fact starting a car or boarding an airplane have nothing to do with faith, rather they have to do with an understanding [to a greater or lesser degree] that the probability of the desired event will happen. Therefore, such a comparison is meaningless. A similar rationale could be made about faith in your spouse, your money, your stocks and bonds, your posessions, etc., etc., etc.

If Faith in God is not a natural attribute of mankind what is the origin of such faith? Faith in God, is the gift of God as demonstrated by the following Scripture:

Matthew 16:16,17, KJV
16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8,9, KJV
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Though Faith in God, which leads to imputed righteousness, is not a natural attribute of man such faith is clearly demonstrated in the Apostle Paul’s analysis of the faith of Abraham:

Romans 4:18-22, KJV
18. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
20. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21. And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

 

Me, My and I:

is what separates man from God. Mankind suffers from chronic "egomania" and "megalomania".

Most of the ills of this world are caused by someone being "self-centered". Selfishness is sin.

Many people use the term: "My Faith". This is a misnomer. Anything "good" comes from above and is a gift--by the Grace of God. We have not "faith" unless God gives it.

This discussion is "bogged" in semantics. Ephesians 2:8 is quite plain. Why is there no consensus?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

God Gives us faith

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Luke 17:5 And the apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith." 6 So the Lord said, "If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,' and it would obey you.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

1 Corinthians 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,


Through his Word

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


And Holy Spirit

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.

Galatians 3:25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

There may be consensus--on this thread anyway:

There are many who believe that God supplies the faith to believe--along with every other aspect of redemption.

There is no room for boasting--only praise and glory to God.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

God gives people the faith by which they believe and are justified because they are among the elect. That is obvious if uou take off your blinders and suppress your ego and humbly read the Scripture that has been posted time and again on this Forum.

 

Wes, poor Wes

You are deliberately denying Scripture. RON35951 has posted a number of passages above that demonstrate this truth. Other posters including me have also posted such Scripture. Yet you continue to deny. Worse yet you are making yourself the author of your salvation when you blithely state: you must do the Faithing for God to do the saving! May God forgive you!

 

Wes, I have been away for a few days.

Did you ever answer my question about the merits of a good choice to believe?

If you didn't then now would be an opportune time to do so.

If you did, would you mind linking me to it?

 

Why would he do that?. After all he Gave us his Living Word, and since we have the writings of those who were taught by God?

Do you say that his Word is not sufficient for causing those who hear it to have faith in Him?

You should do the same!

Talk about ego! If God gives you something that he does not give me, YOU HAVE MUCH to boast about! for example: "See! God loves me more than he loves you! NANA! NANA! NANA!" </font>[/QUOTE]Wes, Wes, Wes

You show how little you understand about the Grace of God. Those of us who believe in election can't run around saying to anyone: "I have more faith than you therefore I am saved and you are not." We have absolutely nothing to boast about. Rather the belief that God chose us unto Salvation in Jesus Christ stirs the deepest humility in our lives.

 

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,(NKJV)


Ephesians 2:8 (Amplified Bible)

8For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved ([a]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;

You are correct that the gift referred to is salvation. But if salvation is given by grace through faith, then faith must also be given as evidenced by the other scriptures I gave. (Luke 17:5, Romans 12:3, 1 Corinthians 12:8)

 

Wes,

Are you saying we recieve faith by chance?

Why do some people sit under the preaching of the Gospel and never recieve faith nor salvation?

Why do some people hear the the Gospel their entire lives but are never saved while others hear it once and are saved?

Why do some people never hear the Gospel? Is it just bad luck? Or does God determine where the Gospel is preached?