AndyMartin
Active Member
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father We are one." (John 10:27-30)
Is Jesus Christ here speaking of a unity of will and purpose with His Father; or, of the essential unity by which both He and the Father are God?
Those like the Jehovah's Witnesses, whose "theology" is to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ, and therefore the Holy Trinity, would naturally argue against any text or passage in the Bible, which very clearly teaches that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. Just as they do for John 1:1, where they would render the Greek into English as "and the Word was a god", and then look around for Bible versions, and "scholars" to support their corruption, and even falsify the evidence to support this warped conclusions. Likewise on this passage in John chapter 10, they very wrongly suppose, that anyone who believes in an "essential unity" of the Father and Son, believe that both are the same Person. In their booklet, "Should You believe in the Trinity", they argue from John 17:21-22, where Jesus prays that His disciples may become "one". "Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were. - See also 1 Corinthians 1:10" (page, 24)
Their argument here does not prove or disprove anything. That all human beings are essentially one, is beyond any dispute, as all are made in the image of God, and have the same human nature. So, there would be no reason for Jesus to have prayed that His disciples became what they already were, "essentially one". It is quite correct to say that Jesus was praying for their unity in thought and purpose, as this is exactly what the passage teaches. But, it is rather foolish to assume, as the Jehovah's Witnesses do here, that this is the only meaning of "one", and must have the same meaning everywhere. Their complete blindness and misunderstanding of the Persons in the Holy Trinity, can be clearly seen from their own remarks on the text of John 1:1, where they argue, "Every honest person will have to admit that John's saying that the Word or Logos 'was divine' is not saying that he was the God with whom he was. It merely tells of a certain quality about the Word or Logos, but it does not identify him as one and the same God" (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation, Appendix, page, 1158). For those who have ever tried to speak to a Jehovah's Witnesses about the Holy Trinity, they would have seen the error of their understanding. By statements like, "and the Word was God", and "I and the Father we are one", they wrongly assume that, those who believe in the Holy Trinity, also believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are One and the same Person. That is why they will bring up passages where Jesus is praying to the Father, and mockingly say, "was He praying to Himself"? They fail to understand that there is a plurality of Persons in the Holy Trinity, while a unity of nature. It could be stated as 1x1x1=1; and not, 1+1+1=3.
This is clearly seen from Jesus' own words in Matthew 28:19, where He says, "...baptise them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Note, Jesus says, "to onoma", "The Name", that is "One Name", and not "ta onomata", the plural, "The Names", "Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit". What, then is "The Name", that Jesus says, belongs to Himself, and the Father and Holy Spirit? We read in Exodus chapter 3, where Moses asks Almighty God for His "Name". To which God replies, "Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh", which is best rendered into English as, "I am that I am" (ver.14). The Greek version of the Old Testament (The Septuagint), which was done some 150 years before the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, has it, "ego eimi ho on", "I am the Eternal One", which is what the Hebrew actually means, from which we get the Title of God, "Yahweh", which means, "the eternal, self-existing One". In verse 15, God tells Moses, "this is My Name forever". The Name which Jesus speaks of in Matthew 28:19, no doubt is "Yahweh". It should also be noted, that, even though Jesus says "Name", (singular), the Greek text that follows is also very important: "tou Patros kai tou Huiou kai tou Hagiou Pneumatos", where the Greek "article" (tou), is repeated, to show that a "distinction" of Persons is meant. There is no arguing against this, unless one is wilfully blinded to the Truth of Scripture.
That the word "one" in John 10:30, can and does include "unity of will and thought and purpose", as this the Father and Son do always have, cannot be disputed. But, for those, like John Calvin, to say, that it was, " wrong use of this passage to prove that Christ is (homoousis) of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement which he has with the Father, so that whatever is done by Christ will be confirmed by the power of his Father" (Commentary), is completely incorrect, and his very words have been used by the Jehovah's Witnesses, to show that even someone who believed in the Holy Trinity, did not understand the words in John 10:30, to refer to Jesus' Deity and essential oneness with the Father. Clearly Calvin misses the teaching of the entire passage, while the Jehovah's Witnesses do so for dishonest means.
We must always first look at the context why something is said, and then determine what it teaches, and not to conclude from other uses of a word of phrase, where the meaning might be very different, that it must mean the same everywhere, as this is not right. It is like the word "theos" (God). It is used for the Father, and Jesus Christ (John 1:1, 10:30, 20:28; Acts 20:28; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13, etc), and the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 6:16, with 3:16; Hebrews 3:7-11, with Psalm 95:7-11; Hebrews 10:15-18, with, Jeremiah 31:33-34). But, it is also used for the devil (2 Corinthians 4:4), and humans who represent God, as in judges John 10:34-35), Surely we cannot conclude, that in every case the use and meaning of "theos" must be the same?
We shall now take a closer look at the context of John 10:30, which I believe will show that Jesus here says of Himself, that He is Almighty God.
In verse 28 Jesus is speaking of His sheep, of whom He says, "and I give them eternal life, and in no wise shall they perish forever" (Greek text). This "life" that Jesus here speaks of, is what belongs in Him, as its source, which is true of also the Father and Holy Spirit, since they are equally Almighty God. The Gospel of John begins by the powerful statement about Jesus Christ, in 1:1, Who is called "the Word", and is said to be "with the Father" from all eternity, where the Greek preposition, "pros" (with), shows that two individual Persons are meant. And then we read, "and the Word was God", that is, in exactly the same sense as the Father is. In verse 3, we read that "all things were created by Him", where the use of the Greek preposition, "di", does not mean, that Jesus was the "agent" through whom the Father created, but the actual creator. The same way this preposition is used of the Father in Hebrews 2:10, where its meaning can hardly be that someone created "through" the Father. In Galatians 1:1, this preposition is used with both Jesus and the Father jointly (by [dia] Jesus Christ and God the Father), where the meaning is not instrumental. Then, in verse 4 of John 1, we read of Jesus, "in Him was life". Here we have yet another preposition, "en" (in), where its meaning is "within", as in the "source". Just as Paul uses the preposition of God in Acts 17:28, "for in (en) Him, we live and move and exist", as God is the "source" of life. The Unitarian, J H Thayer, in his Greek-English lexicon, has of this verse, "Jn.i.4; ho logos tes zoes, the Logos having life in itself and communicating it to others" (p.273). And commenting on Acts 3:15, where Jesus is called the "archegos of life", Thayer says of the Greek word, that it here means: "the author" (p.77). Language that cannot refer to anyone who is not Almighty God, Who alone is the "author of life", and here we have it for Jesus Christ. We have here someone who denied the Deity of Jesus Christ, and the Holy Trinity, and yet his definitions are accurate at these places. The Jehovah's Witnesses, and others, can learn from Thayer.
Is Jesus Christ here speaking of a unity of will and purpose with His Father; or, of the essential unity by which both He and the Father are God?
Those like the Jehovah's Witnesses, whose "theology" is to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ, and therefore the Holy Trinity, would naturally argue against any text or passage in the Bible, which very clearly teaches that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. Just as they do for John 1:1, where they would render the Greek into English as "and the Word was a god", and then look around for Bible versions, and "scholars" to support their corruption, and even falsify the evidence to support this warped conclusions. Likewise on this passage in John chapter 10, they very wrongly suppose, that anyone who believes in an "essential unity" of the Father and Son, believe that both are the same Person. In their booklet, "Should You believe in the Trinity", they argue from John 17:21-22, where Jesus prays that His disciples may become "one". "Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were. - See also 1 Corinthians 1:10" (page, 24)
Their argument here does not prove or disprove anything. That all human beings are essentially one, is beyond any dispute, as all are made in the image of God, and have the same human nature. So, there would be no reason for Jesus to have prayed that His disciples became what they already were, "essentially one". It is quite correct to say that Jesus was praying for their unity in thought and purpose, as this is exactly what the passage teaches. But, it is rather foolish to assume, as the Jehovah's Witnesses do here, that this is the only meaning of "one", and must have the same meaning everywhere. Their complete blindness and misunderstanding of the Persons in the Holy Trinity, can be clearly seen from their own remarks on the text of John 1:1, where they argue, "Every honest person will have to admit that John's saying that the Word or Logos 'was divine' is not saying that he was the God with whom he was. It merely tells of a certain quality about the Word or Logos, but it does not identify him as one and the same God" (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation, Appendix, page, 1158). For those who have ever tried to speak to a Jehovah's Witnesses about the Holy Trinity, they would have seen the error of their understanding. By statements like, "and the Word was God", and "I and the Father we are one", they wrongly assume that, those who believe in the Holy Trinity, also believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are One and the same Person. That is why they will bring up passages where Jesus is praying to the Father, and mockingly say, "was He praying to Himself"? They fail to understand that there is a plurality of Persons in the Holy Trinity, while a unity of nature. It could be stated as 1x1x1=1; and not, 1+1+1=3.
This is clearly seen from Jesus' own words in Matthew 28:19, where He says, "...baptise them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Note, Jesus says, "to onoma", "The Name", that is "One Name", and not "ta onomata", the plural, "The Names", "Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit". What, then is "The Name", that Jesus says, belongs to Himself, and the Father and Holy Spirit? We read in Exodus chapter 3, where Moses asks Almighty God for His "Name". To which God replies, "Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh", which is best rendered into English as, "I am that I am" (ver.14). The Greek version of the Old Testament (The Septuagint), which was done some 150 years before the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, has it, "ego eimi ho on", "I am the Eternal One", which is what the Hebrew actually means, from which we get the Title of God, "Yahweh", which means, "the eternal, self-existing One". In verse 15, God tells Moses, "this is My Name forever". The Name which Jesus speaks of in Matthew 28:19, no doubt is "Yahweh". It should also be noted, that, even though Jesus says "Name", (singular), the Greek text that follows is also very important: "tou Patros kai tou Huiou kai tou Hagiou Pneumatos", where the Greek "article" (tou), is repeated, to show that a "distinction" of Persons is meant. There is no arguing against this, unless one is wilfully blinded to the Truth of Scripture.
That the word "one" in John 10:30, can and does include "unity of will and thought and purpose", as this the Father and Son do always have, cannot be disputed. But, for those, like John Calvin, to say, that it was, " wrong use of this passage to prove that Christ is (homoousis) of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement which he has with the Father, so that whatever is done by Christ will be confirmed by the power of his Father" (Commentary), is completely incorrect, and his very words have been used by the Jehovah's Witnesses, to show that even someone who believed in the Holy Trinity, did not understand the words in John 10:30, to refer to Jesus' Deity and essential oneness with the Father. Clearly Calvin misses the teaching of the entire passage, while the Jehovah's Witnesses do so for dishonest means.
We must always first look at the context why something is said, and then determine what it teaches, and not to conclude from other uses of a word of phrase, where the meaning might be very different, that it must mean the same everywhere, as this is not right. It is like the word "theos" (God). It is used for the Father, and Jesus Christ (John 1:1, 10:30, 20:28; Acts 20:28; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13, etc), and the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 6:16, with 3:16; Hebrews 3:7-11, with Psalm 95:7-11; Hebrews 10:15-18, with, Jeremiah 31:33-34). But, it is also used for the devil (2 Corinthians 4:4), and humans who represent God, as in judges John 10:34-35), Surely we cannot conclude, that in every case the use and meaning of "theos" must be the same?
We shall now take a closer look at the context of John 10:30, which I believe will show that Jesus here says of Himself, that He is Almighty God.
In verse 28 Jesus is speaking of His sheep, of whom He says, "and I give them eternal life, and in no wise shall they perish forever" (Greek text). This "life" that Jesus here speaks of, is what belongs in Him, as its source, which is true of also the Father and Holy Spirit, since they are equally Almighty God. The Gospel of John begins by the powerful statement about Jesus Christ, in 1:1, Who is called "the Word", and is said to be "with the Father" from all eternity, where the Greek preposition, "pros" (with), shows that two individual Persons are meant. And then we read, "and the Word was God", that is, in exactly the same sense as the Father is. In verse 3, we read that "all things were created by Him", where the use of the Greek preposition, "di", does not mean, that Jesus was the "agent" through whom the Father created, but the actual creator. The same way this preposition is used of the Father in Hebrews 2:10, where its meaning can hardly be that someone created "through" the Father. In Galatians 1:1, this preposition is used with both Jesus and the Father jointly (by [dia] Jesus Christ and God the Father), where the meaning is not instrumental. Then, in verse 4 of John 1, we read of Jesus, "in Him was life". Here we have yet another preposition, "en" (in), where its meaning is "within", as in the "source". Just as Paul uses the preposition of God in Acts 17:28, "for in (en) Him, we live and move and exist", as God is the "source" of life. The Unitarian, J H Thayer, in his Greek-English lexicon, has of this verse, "Jn.i.4; ho logos tes zoes, the Logos having life in itself and communicating it to others" (p.273). And commenting on Acts 3:15, where Jesus is called the "archegos of life", Thayer says of the Greek word, that it here means: "the author" (p.77). Language that cannot refer to anyone who is not Almighty God, Who alone is the "author of life", and here we have it for Jesus Christ. We have here someone who denied the Deity of Jesus Christ, and the Holy Trinity, and yet his definitions are accurate at these places. The Jehovah's Witnesses, and others, can learn from Thayer.
