The Father is always seen as being the "first among equals"
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The Essential Unity of The Father and Jesus Christ
- Thread starter AndyMartin
- Start date
AndyMartin
Active Member
any Scripture examples though?
Jesus is the only beggoten of the father, and jesus will be turning his kingdom over to the father in the end, and right now Jesus sitting at Father right hand side, so Father is the one upon the throne sop to speak!
AndyMartin
Active Member
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Cor. 13:14)
1. Jesus, 2. The Father, 3. The Holy Spirit
1. Jesus, 2. The Father, 3. The Holy Spirit
AndyMartin
Active Member
"μονογενής", has nothing to do with "begetting", as it literally means "of a single kind" or "unique". “only-begotten,” which would be "μονογέννητος", in the Greek. the Old Latin had "unicus" (unique), which the Vulgate of Jerome changed to "unigenitus", which was to combat the Arian heresy that said Jesus was the "first-created" by the Father. The Church responded with creeds that said, "begotten" not "created", but misused the Greek "μονογενής".
AndyMartin
Active Member
Revelation 22:1, "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb". The Greek "θρόνου", is in the singular, as they are on "one throne", as in "joint Rulers". And in Revelation 11:15 we read, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever". "the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ", which refers to the Father and Jesus Christ. Yet, we have the use of the singular, "βασιλεύσει", "He shall Reign", which can hardly be only for Jesus Christ. The essential unity of the Father and Son are seen here, the Greek, "τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν, καὶ τοῦ χριστοῦ αὐτοῦ", shows that "Lord" and "Christ" cannot be one and the same Person, but distinct.
AndyMartin
Active Member
Another thing is, that we know that the Father is "Yahweh", and Jesus Christ is "Yahweh", and the Holy Spirit is also "Yahweh". This Name of God means "The existing, ever-living, as self-consistent and unchangeable, self-existing", which means that neither can be the "originator" of the others, lest we fall into heresy.
I agree that all 3 of them are equally and fully God!
Yes, as John showed to us in his prologue that Jesus is the very same "stuff" as God the father, so whatever makes One God, both Him and the father have it, but are both distinct persons, not the same One!
AndyMartin
Active Member
then there cannot be any "subordination"
AndyMartin
Active Member
yes, One, but Three
There can be, if a temp basis, such as when jesus was here on earth, and freely gave up the "glory that he had with thefather", whatever that fully meant!
AndyMartin
Active Member
I am talking about within the Godhead, not the temporary "submission" of Jesus Christ, the God-Man to the Father.
I seriously think you have a problem with reading and comprehension
AndyMartin
Active Member
I notice that you have ignored all my recent post, which prove beyond any doubt, that the Bible very clearly teaches that the Godhead is One, but there are Three distinct Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, coequal, coessential and coeternal.
All you've proven is that you're adept at swallowing a doctrine hook, line and sinker, and then reading it into various texts.
There isn't any "proof" of three "Persons", or else there would have never been any debate about it in the first place. Ev'rybody would have said - "yep, there it says it"
The bottom line is that you afraid to look at scripture honestly because you're afraid that if you do you'll see reality and then it'll mean that you're going to go to hell.
Yesha1 already said that your view will send someone to hell, and that's what keeps you people towing the line. You're afraid of anathema. And it keeps you either ignoring or trying to explain away clear, explicit statements in Scripture.
Jesus is the Word of God. God speaks his Word, and creation happens. His Word is sent forth from Him and it does not return to him until it has accomplished all the he has purposed. The Word of God is with God. The Word of God is God.
God's Word became flesh. God sent His Word into the world by putting His Word into a baby, supernaturally impregnating a virgin. He said "you'll name him Jesus" and He granted that baby to have life in Himself. Jesus is equal to God because He's the very Word of God, which proceeded from the mouth of God.
Those are all clearly taught in scripture, not 3 distinct beings standing shoulder to shoulder.
Your fail, along with all of those in your camp, is that you are not content with the mystery. You think you need to have all the ends tied up neatly.
How is it that the Word of God can exhibit personality traits which, from the perspective of human frailty, appear to portray a being distinct from God Himself?
I can't explain that, nor will I try. And neither can you explain it. Nor should you try.
You take the clear Biblical teaching that Jesus is God, and then ignore the clear Biblical teaching the he's the Word of God. It will be written on his thigh when He returns - WORD of GOD.
But I haven't seen one mention of that from you. You seem perfectly content to throw that piece of truth in the trash in favor of a philosophy the Jesus must have been teaching a Trinitarian doctrine when he mentioned Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in baptism.
Why don't we just employ some philosophical meanderings, and conclude that God eternally exists as a fire in a bush?
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AndyMartin
Active Member
This one line tells me that what you believe is blatant heresy, "Jesus is equal to God because He's the very Word of God, which proceeded from the mouth of God." You falsely equate Jesus Christ with the "spoken" Word that comes from God's mouth! This is complete rubbish and anti-trinitarian, which is the Biblical teaching of God.
You say that Jesus is not a "distinct Person", so was it the Father Who died on the cross, since Jesus is only the "spoken word of God"? Was it the Holy Spirit Who was born from Mary? Did Jesus Christ pray to Himself, when He prayed to the Father? You blasphemously call the Holy Trinity "trash", and come on this forum pretending to be "baptist", when clearly you are promoting "doctrine of demons".
Jesus always has existed as God, as Yahweh/Yedhua. correct?
There are 3 ETERNAl Persons, each one equally God. correct?
All I know is I'm glad we're not in Geneva
But you go on philosophizing, and I'll go on reading scripture
You tell me what 1 Person is, and I'll tell you whether I think there are 3 of "them"