The Evolutionist Heresy

[Mark Osgatharp]

The teaching of evolution is a damnable heresy, contrary to the word of God and, when embraced, destructive of faith in God's word.

An honest, but unspiritual, man may be deceived into thinking that evolution is true. But no honest man thinks evolution can be reconciled with the teachings of the Bible. Those who insist that the Bible and evolution are compatible are wilfull liars bent on deceiving the simple and insidiously infecting the churches with their unclean doctrine.

Here are some points at which the evolutionist heresy is at diametrical and irreconcilable odds with the faith of Christ:

1. Evolution says the world is millions or billions of years old. The Bible says the world is a little over 6,000 years old and that the creation took place in six days.

2. Evolution says God's creatures evolve into different kinds. The Bible says God's creatures have, from the very beginning, reproduced after their own kind.

3. Evolution says that all reproduction was originally asexual, and that homosexual and then heterosexual reproduction evolved out of asexual. The Bible says that animal and human reproduction were, from the beginning, heterosexual.

Though we have some examples of asexual reproduction in the creation, I am not aware of any examples of homosexual reproduction; and yet some phase of homosexual reproduction in the history of mankind is an inescapable necessity if the evolutionist heresy be true.

4. Evolution says that man descended from animals. The Bible says man was uniquely created in God's image and that woman was taken directly from the man.

When carried to it's logical end, this aspect of evolution leads to normalization of animalistic behavior and deification and humanization of the animal world, or even the plant world.

5. Evolution teaches that death is a natural and even creative phenomena. The Bible says that death entered as punishment by God for Adam's sin. Evolution denies the doctrine of inherited depravity from Adam.

The evolutionist heresy is a flat contradiction of Paul's assertion that death entered by one man.

6. Evolution implies that marriage was contrived by man as a matter of convenience. The Bible teaches that marriage was instituted by God from the creation of the first pair. Jesus said this took place at the beginning of the creation.

7. Evolution implies that the dominant position of the male was contrived by man so as to dominate the woman. The Bible teaches that God, even before sin entered, made the woman to be a helper for and subject to the man.

8. Evolution implies that there are "races" of people and that some of these "races" are inferior/superior to others. The Bible teaches that all men were created by God of one blood, that God is no respecter of persons, and that any differences in moral qualities among men is due to cultural and spiritual conditioning and not to any inate characteristic.

In the NAZI philosophy we see this aspect of the evolutionist heresy carried to is logical end.

9. Evolution teaches that the natural world operates on unalterable "laws" of nature. The Bible teaches that all aspects of the natural world are under the moment by moment supervision and providence of God.

10. Evolution is at a loss to explain when man was endowed with an immoratal spirit (if it holds that man has an immortal spirit at all). The Bible teaches that God breathed the breath of life into the first man, Adam.

Anyone who loves the Bible must hate evolution in all it's forms. Every Baptist church in this country should make every effort to purge all evolutionists from their midst, for whenever this heresy is tolerated agnosticism, infidelity, and immorality will quickly ensue.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[Gold Dragon]

Many problems with this post but the one that jumps out at me is homosexual reproduction. What is that?

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
Many problems with this post but the one that jumps out at me is homosexual reproduction. What is that?

The necessary transition between asexual and heterosexual reproduction, if the evolutionist heresy be true.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[Paul of Eugene]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
Many problems with this post but the one that jumps out at me is homosexual reproduction. What is that?

The necessary transition between asexual and heterosexual reproduction, if the evolutionist heresy be true.

Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]necessary? NECESSARY? Science is not about establishing values. But in any case, evolutionists suggest more species have gone extinct than have survived. There is no "evolution theory based" command to survive. There is only the observation that some DO survive.

Personally, speaking as a fully rounded human being and not merely a "scientist", I greatly favor the survival of the human race. Perhaps my biological heritage helps me feel that way instinctively. It is certainly consistent with the morality I believe in as part of my Baptist Faith. Homosexuality does not appear to me to play a part in the survival of the human race.

 

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
The Bible teaches that God, even before sin entered, made the woman to be a helper for and subject to the man.

There may be valid ways to interpret male dominance before the Fall, but this is not one of them. The word translated "a helper" or "a help" in Genesis 2:18,20 occurs frequently in the Bible, and in almost all cases the helper is God or sent by God. Do you really want to suggest that this means God is subject to man?

"The name of the one was Gershom (for he said, 'I have been a sojourner in a foreign land'), and the name of the other, Eliezer (for he said, 'The God of my father was my help, and delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh')." (Exodus 18:3-4, ESV)

"And this he said of Judah: 'Hear, O LORD, the voice of Judah, and bring him in to his people. With your hands contend for him, and be a help against his adversaries.' " (Deuteronomy 33:7)

"There is none like God, O Jeshurun, who rides through the heavens to your help, through the skies in his majesty." (Deuteronomy 33:26)

"Happy are you, O Israel! Who is like you, a people saved by the LORD, the shield of your help, and the sword of your triumph! Your enemies shall come fawning to you, and you shall tread upon their backs." (Deuteronomy 33:29)

"May the LORD answer you in the day of trouble! May the name of the God of Jacob protect you! May he send you help from the sanctuary and give you support from Zion!" (Psalm 20:1-2)

"Our soul waits for the LORD; he is our help and our shield." (Psalm 33:20)

"But I am poor and needy; hasten to me, O God! You are my help and my deliverer; O LORD, do not delay!" (Psalm 70:5)

"For our shield belongs to the LORD, our king to the Holy One of Israel. Of old you spoke in a vision to your godly one, and said: 'I have granted help to one who is mighty; I have exalted one chosen from the people.' " (Psalm 89:18-19)

"O Israel, trust in the LORD! He is their help and their shield. O house of Aaron, trust in the LORD! He is their help and their shield. You who fear the LORD, trust in the LORD! He is their help and their shield." (Psalm 115:9-11)

"I lift up my eyes to the hills. From where does my help come? My help comes from the LORD, who made heaven and earth." (Psalm 121:1-2)

"Our help is in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth." (Psalm 124:8)

"Blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the LORD his God, who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, who keeps faith forever; who executes justice for the oppressed, who gives food to the hungry." (Psalm 146:5-7)

"He destroys you, O Israel, for you are against me, against your helper." (Hosea 13:9)

The only verses where it doesn't refer to God, aside from Genesis 2 where it refers to Eve, are Isaiah 30:5, Ezekiel 12:14 and Daniel 11:34.

 

[Petrel]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
Those who insist that the Bible and evolution are compatible are wilfull liars bent on deceiving the simple and insidiously infecting the churches with their unclean doctrine.

Stone me now!

Pretty much all of these could be answered by saying, "That's your opinion," but a few things leaped out at me.

1. Evolution says the world is millions or billions of years old. The Bible says the world is a little over 6,000 years old and that the creation took place in six days.

That's definitely billions, not millions.

3. Evolution says that all reproduction was originally asexual, and that homosexual and then heterosexual reproduction evolved out of asexual. The Bible says that animal and human reproduction were, from the beginning, heterosexual.

There is no such thing as homosexual reproduction. Human reproduction has always been sexual.

8. Evolution implies that there are "races" of people and that some of these "races" are inferior/superior to others. The Bible teaches that all men were created by God of one blood, that God is no respecter of persons, and that any differences in moral qualities among men is due to cultural and spiritual conditioning and not to any inate characteristic.

Not true.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
Many problems with this post but the one that jumps out at me is homosexual reproduction. What is that?

The necessary transition between asexual and heterosexual reproduction, if the evolutionist heresy be true.

Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]How does homosexual reproduction work? What evidence is there of homosexual reproduction ever being a reproductive option for any species?

There are some species that use sexual reproduction but have hermaphroditic properties when one sex is in short supply.

By homosexual reproduction, are you referring to protists and fungus which sexually reproduce but either party could be the "mother" or "father"?

[ November 15, 2005, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Gold Dragon ]

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
How does homosexual reproduction work? What evidence is there of homosexual reproduction ever being a reproductive option for any species?

Duh, of course there is no such thing as homosexual reproduction!

But if you start trying to explain how asexual cells evolved into heterosexual animals and eventually man, a homosexual stage will have to figure in there somewhere.

I am admittedly not very well read in the evolutionist heresy, but I'm sure some astute evolutionist has already figured this out and attempted a theory of how it all happened.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
Duh, of course there is no such thing as homosexual reproduction!

Good, we all agree with you.

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
But if you start trying to explain how asexual cells evolved into heterosexual animals and eventually man, a homosexual stage will have to figure in there somewhere.

I've never heard anyone assert this except you.

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
I am admittedly not very well read in the evolutionist heresy,

Really?

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
but I'm sure some astute evolutionist has already figured this out and attempted a theory of how it all happened.

Nope. Nobody has attempted to do this because it is not involved in evolution and nobody besides you and whoever you got this information from has ever claimed it is.

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Gold Dragon,

Please explain to me, specifically, the process by which you think asexual cells evolved into animals with male and female reproductive organs.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by Mercury:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
The Bible teaches that God, even before sin entered, made the woman to be a helper for and subject to the man.

There may be valid ways to interpret male dominance before the Fall, but this is not one of them.</font>[/QUOTE]But Paul said,

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."

And,

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve."

Paul was correct, you are incorrect. All the Scriptures you posted about God being our helper don't even touch on the subject.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
Paul was correct, you are incorrect. All the Scriptures you posted about God being our helper don't even touch on the subject.

No, you are changing your tune. You've switched from an argument based on the word "help" to an argument based on the creation order. As I said in my first post, "There may be valid ways to interpret male dominance before the Fall, but this [your 'helper' comments] is not one of them."

I have no disagreement with your new example from the creation order. My disagreement was with your faulty logic based on the word "help".

 

[JackRUS]

Mark.
Good opening comments for which I in spirit am in full agreement. Mostly with this comment:

"Anyone who loves the Bible must hate evolution in all it's forms. Every Baptist church in this country should make every effort to purge all evolutionists from their midst, for whenever this heresy is tolerated agnosticism, infidelity, and immorality will quickly ensue."

Not to mention that evolution is in no way compatible with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul wrote that by one man sin entered the world. And by Christ, one Man, we can therefore all be saved from our sins. This federal head precedent on both counts is necessary for the Gospel be in effect.

I also agree that all evolutionists, especially theistic evolutionists, should be put out of all Christians churches, not just Baptist, unless they repent, for all of the reasons that you gave and more.

Paul was not joking when he wrote Acts 20:28-31. And this applies to the heresy of evolution more than any in the history of Christianity other than the liberal heresies of denying the deity of Christ and adding works to the Gospel. I would argue that the theory of evolution has done more to make shipwreck the faith among believers and those interested in becoming believers in the 20th century, than any other heresy.

JWI wrote this on another evolution thread:

"All I see is the evolutionists throwing doubt on one scripture after another.

And this is evident today. There is a local show in my area where a pastor goes to college campuses and speaks to students. The students constantly bring evolution up in an attempt to prove the Bible wrong. The very show this week the pastor pulled out a wristwatch to show that design cannot come about through random chance.

But even with this simple example, the students believed evolution. And all thought the Bible was a myth.

The evolutionists do not want freedom of thought. They start their work early. My 3 year old son has many books on dinosaurs. They are full of references to evolution, saying the earth is millions of years old, and explaining how some dinosaurs evolved into birds, etc.....

And I have to always explain that this is not true. That God created the animals as they are and that the earth is not old."

And all it takes is someone who is a theistic evolutionist to teach Sunday school, or get on the deacon board and get this heresy started up in their local church. Something similar (Calvinism) to this happen in my former Baptist church, and it wrecked a once great soul winning church. The church split three times, and is now a dead church.

I am convinced that all who teach this theory will be fully ashamed at either the Judgement Seat of Christ, or the Great White Throne Judgement. And sadly I suspect the latter. I know that this will not be popular among those here that chose to be popular with the world and are proponents of this heresy. But it's true.

[ November 15, 2005, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: JackRUS ]

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
Gold Dragon,

Please explain to me, specifically, the process by which you think asexual cells evolved into animals with male and female reproductive organs.

Mark Osgatharp

I am also wondering how "Mother Nature" figured out how to get them to be spread out in every species at close to 50-50%?

 

[Petrel]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
I am also wondering how "Mother Nature" figured out how to get them to be spread out in every species at close to 50-50%?

Since most sexually reproducing life stages are diploid and sex is determined by either having a matching pair of chromosomes or a mismatched pair, what's the difficulty?

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by Mercury:
My disagreement was with your faulty logic based on the word "help".

My reasoning was not based on the word "help." My reasoning was based on the fact that the Lord explicitly said that He created woman to be a helper for the man.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[JackRUS]

Mark.
You are being sent in a rabbit hole which this time is called "help". Don't fall for it.

Now then, the subject was, ahem, evolution = heresy I believe.

 

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
My reasoning was based on the fact that the Lord explicitly said that He created woman to be a helper for the man.

Being a helper is not necessarily a submissive role. The Lord is our helper. That does not make him subservient to us. If you want to argue from the way Adam was formed first, then Eve, that's a totally different issue, and one used by Paul. Paul did not appeal to the way the woman was created as a "helper".

But, I agree that this is a rabbit trail. The original post contained about ten possible rabbit trails to pursue.

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
Anyone who loves the Bible must hate evolution in all it's forms. Every Baptist church in this country should make every effort to purge all evolutionists from their midst, for whenever this heresy is tolerated agnosticism, infidelity, and immorality will quickly ensue.

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by Mercury:
If you want to argue from the way Adam was formed first, then Eve, that's a totally different issue, and one used by Paul. Paul did not appeal to the way the woman was created as a "helper".

How is that a totally different issue?

The mere fact that Adam was older than Eve did not establish his dominance. If that were the case, then every woman who is older than her husband should be the head of the house.

The whole point of Paul saying that Adam was created first was that Eve was created as a helper "for" him. That fact shoots your little rabbit grave yard dead. Hear Paul again,

"Neither was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man."

Mark Osgatharp