The False Doctrine of Purgatory

[Adonia]

In this case, having read and studied the Bible thoroughly, I find no place in it for the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory.

Well good, then don't become a Catholic.

By the way, the organization CARM is hardly an unbiased source. Since what much of you posted came directly from CARM, how come you didn't source them from the beginning and use quotation marks at the proper places? You attempt to deceive the reader as the words written are not your own.

This is why I can't take you seriously - you are not honest in your posting and much of it is just "copy and paste" work without attribution at the beginning where it should be.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well good, then don't become a Catholic.

By the way, the organization CARM is hardly an unbiased source. Since what much of you posted came directly from CARM, how come you didn't source them from the beginning and use quotation marks at the proper places? You attempt to deceive the reader as the words written are not your own.

This is why I can't take you seriously - you are not honest in your posting and much of it is just "copy and paste" work without attribution at the beginning where it should be.

No need for Purgetory, as God Himself declares me once saved by Jesus to be just as holy as Christ himself!

 

[MarysSon]

No need for Purgetory, as God Himself declares me once saved by Jesus to be just as holy as Christ himself!

Where does Scripture say that you're "just as holy" as Christ Himself??
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

 

[Yeshua1]

Where does Scripture say that you're "just as holy" as Christ Himself??
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

We are clothed in the rightiousness of Jesus Himself, wearing his white suit upon us!

 

[MarysSon]

This study really shows the issues with this idea of purgatory...
"Problems with the Doctrine of Purgatory
As a Christian who bases spiritual truth on the Bible alone, I see problems with the doctrine of purgatory. For example:

1. It is not explicitly found in the Bible.
2. It implies that the righteousness of Christ does not cleanse from all sin.
3. It implies that justification is not by faith alone.
4. It implies that there is something we must do in order to be cleansed of sin.

In this case, having read and studied the Bible thoroughly, I find no place in it for the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory."...Purgatory | CARM.org

Then YOU don't know your Bible . . .

First of all - WHO said that something has to be explicitly taught in Scripture to be true?? The Trinity is not an explicit teaching - but it is implicitly taught.
The SAME goes for the Incarnation.

There are MANY verses that describe God handing out his justice as a Refiner. A refiner is someone who takes the raw material for metal and actually gets the gold and silver and iron from that material - and he does it with FIRE. We see in Mal.i 3:3, Jer. 6:27-30, Ezek. 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa. 48:10, where God is the Refiner who burns away the impurities to get to the precious metal – the gold and silver.

In 1 Cor. 3:10-15, this is how the process is described:
"According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it, for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day (judgment) will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person WILL be saved, but only as through FIRE."

As I indicated earlier . . .
This is NOT talking about Heaven because the person "suffers" loss.
This is NOT talking about Hell because the person is eventually "saved".
This process is a THIRD state - the state of Final Purification/Refinement before entering Heaven.

WHY is this necessary??
Because Rev. 21:27 tells us that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven. Final Purification does NOT go against Christ's all-sufficient, ONE-time sacrifice. It is ONLY possible BECAUSE of that sacrifice.

 

[MarysSon]

We are clothed in the rightiousness of Jesus Himself, wearing his white suit upon us!

That's NOT what I asked you.
I asked you to show me where Scripture says that you're "just as holy" as Christ Himself??

It NEVER makes this claim so your words are blasphemous.

 

[Yeshua1]

That's NOT what I asked you.
I asked you to show me where Scripture says that you're "just as holy" as Christ Himself??

It NEVER makes this claim so your words are blasphemous.

I have been clothed in white linens of Jesus, in Hos own righteousness itself!
God declares that I am not fully justified in Jesus, as He has imputed that holiness to myself directly in His own sight, praise God!

 

[AustinC]

Another RCC member twisted Ephesians 2 and declared that we are being saved by faith which moves God to show grace. It was a complete twist of what God says.

For by grace you are saved. Paul says it twice. No "being" saved as in future possibility. Instead "you are saved." That is past tense.

 

[MarysSon]

I have been clothed in white linens of Jesus, in Hos own righteousness itself!
God declares that I am not fully justified in Jesus, as He has imputed that holiness to myself directly in His own sight, praise God!

And, unless YOU are pure - YOU ain't getting into Heaven.

The Father is NOT an idiot who has people sneaking into Heaven disguised in Christ's righteousness. Christ MAKES us righteous because, according to Rev. 21:27 - you can't get into Heaven if you are impure or imperfect.

Luther made the same blunder as YOU when he invented the doctrine of "snow-covered dunghills" sneaking past God into Heaven . . .

 

[MarysSon]

Another RCC member twisted Ephesians 2 and declared that we are being saved by faith which moves God to show grace. It was a complete twist of what God says.

For by grace you are saved. Paul says it twice. No "being" saved as in future possibility. Instead "you are saved." That is past tense.

WRONG.
The Bible shows us the WHOLE process . . .

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process and we still struggle with sin – it also says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Salvation is not a one-time, slam-dunk event - but a LIFELONG process . . .

 

[Wesley Briggman]

We have this from the Roman Catholic Church....

Roman Catholic Church - enough said. Might as well stop right there.

 

[Yeshua1]

And, unless YOU are pure - YOU ain't getting into Heaven.

The Father is NOT an idiot who has people sneaking into Heaven disguised in Christ's righteousness. Christ MAKES us righteous because, according to Rev. 21:27 - you can't get into Heaven if you are impure or imperfect.

Luther made the same blunder as YOU when he invented the doctrine of "snow-covered dunghills" sneaking past God into Heaven . . .

Blood of Jesus atones for all of my sins, and I have now justification fully with God, do you per RCC?

 

[Yeshua1]

WRONG.
The Bible shows us the WHOLE process . . .

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process and we still struggle with sin – it also says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Salvation is not a one-time, slam-dunk event - but a LIFELONG process . . .

Justification is a one time thing!

 

[MarysSon]

Roman Catholic Church - enough said. Might as well stop right there.

Yes - why don't we stop right there - since NONE of you seem to understand what "Roman Catholic" means.
Allow me to educate you . . .

First of all - there is NO "Roman Catholic Church" The official name of the Catholic Church is - "The Catholic Church".
"Roman" or "Latin" simply refers to the Liturgical Rite.

There are some TWENTY Liturgical Rites that comprise the Catholic Church. The differences are largely cultural and they are ALL in full communion with each other. When anti-Catholics like YOU ignorantly use the term "RCC" or "Roman Catholic Church" - you are leaving our ALL of the other Liturgical Rites.

Some of the other Rites include the Byzantine, Melkite, Maronite, Coptic, Alexandrian, etc.
So, next time - do your homework before making your anti-Catholic attacks . . .

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes - why don't we stop right there - since NONE of you seem to understand what "Roman Catholic" means.
Allow me to educate you . . .

First of all - there is NO "Roman Catholic Church" The official name of the Catholic Church is - "The Catholic Church".
"Roman" or "Latin" simply refers to the Liturgical Rite.

There are some TWENTY Liturgical Rites that comprise the Catholic Church. The differences are largely cultural and they are ALL in full communion with each other. When anti-Catholics like YOU ignorantly use the term "RCC" or "Roman Catholic Church" - you are leaving our ALL of the other Liturgical Rites.

Some of the other Rites include the Byzantine, Melkite, Maronite, Coptic, Alexandrian, etc.
So, next time - do your homework before making your anti-Catholic attacks . . .

Still deny Pauline Justification, and teach combo graced and good works!

 

[MarysSon]

Blood of Jesus atones for all of my sins, and I have now justification fully with God, do you per RCC?

So, you will never sin again?

 

[MarysSon]

Justification is a one time thing!

Since we are justified - we have a way out when we sin, which is through Christ.

It doesn't mean that we stand blameless for the rest of our lives no matter what we do.
We STILL have to repent and ask for forgiveness when we sin.

 

[MarysSon]

Still deny Pauline Justification, and teach combo graced and good works!

First of all - it's not "Pauline" justification.
He would be the first one to tell you that it is only through CHRIST - and NOT Paul.

Secondly - I understand it perfectly - I simply reject YOUR perversion of it.

 

[Revmitchell]

1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).

1Co 1:8 who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. ....nope it doesnt say we are being saved

2Co 2:15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, ...oh wait...there it is. It is talking about those of us who are waiting our future redemption not that salvation is a process. Some translations translate it:

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: (KJV)

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in those that are saved and in those that perish; (JUB)

2Co 2:15 For we are a sweet aroma of Christ to God, in those who are saved, and in those who perish; (WEB)

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, beloved, let’s cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. ....Nope no being saved there


Php 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. ....nope no being saved there.

Heb 12:4 You have not yet resisted to blood, striving against sin; ....nope no being saved there.

By the way I am not anti-Catholic, I am anti-Catholic doctrine.

 

[MarysSon]

1Co 1:8

who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. ....nope it doesnt say we are being saved

"Will sustain" means He is sustaining us.
That is BEING sustained (saved).

2Co 2:15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among

those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, ...oh wait...there it is. It is talking about those of us who are waiting our future redemption not that salvation is a process. Some translations translate it:
2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: (KJV)
2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in those that are saved and in those that perish; (JUB)
2Co 2:15 For we are a sweet aroma of Christ to God, in those who are saved, and in those who perish; (WEB)
2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, beloved, let’s cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. ....Nope no being saved there

"Those who are BEING SAVED":
New International Version
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
Berean Study Bible
Berean Literal Bible
New American Standard Bible
New King James Version
Christian Standard Bible
Good News Translation
Holman Christian Standard Bible
International Standard Version
NET Bible
New American Standard 1977
English Revised Version
Weymouth New Testament
Young's Literal Translation

Php 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence,

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. ....nope no being saved there.

This doesn't imply a "done deal" but an ONGOING process . . .

Heb 12:4 You have not yet resisted to blood, striving against sin; ....nope no being saved there.
Perhaps, it's because this one needed the verse just before:

Heb. 12:3-4
Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

The bold text above indicates a person who MAY or MAY NOT fall away and lose heart.
This indicates a PROCESS taking place in them - not a "done deal" . . .

By the way I am not anti-Catholic, I am anti-Catholic doctrine.

An anti-Catholic is one who resorts to dishonesty and/or misrepresenting Catholic teachings and beliefs.
I haven't seen ONE person arguing against the Catholic positions on this forum who is simply "anti-Catholic doctrine" . . .