The False Doctrine of Purgatory

[AustinC]

WRONG.
The Bible shows us the WHOLE process . . .

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process and we still struggle with sin – it also says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Salvation is not a one-time, slam-dunk event - but a LIFELONG process . . .

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Romans 8:1,29-39 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have this from the Roman Catholic Church....
'III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611'
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P2N.HTM

This is one of the false doctrines that led Martin Luther to take a stand against the Papacy. Purgatory as a doctrine teaches that a Christian's soul must burn in purgatory after death until all of their sins have been purged. To speed up the purging process, money could be paid to a priest so he could pray and have special masses for an earlier release, and much money was made with this doctrine. Purgatory is given as a way that no matter how sinful or unbelieving, when you die, you go to Purgatory and get things sorted out and finally get to heaven, so no acceptance of Christ is needed, you can buy your way in. But is it in the Bible, if you look it doesn’t show, so where did it come from. It comes as no surprise to see it is a corrupt pagan doctrine, which was allowed into the church.

This pagan idea began creeping into the church around the end of the sixth century, and it has no scriptural support. In fact, Jesus warned us about this pagan practice in Matthew 23:14 when He spoke of those who devoured widows houses and made long prayers for a pretence. Psalm 49:6-7 tells us that a person couldn't redeem a loved one, even if such a place did exist: "They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:"

Peter addresses this issue in Acts 8:20 when he says, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." God's word is clearly against the doctrine of purgatory.

Luther beat you to that bro!

 

[utilyan]

Purgatory started with the JEWS.

Qaddish Mourner's prayer. Purification time ONE YEAR, but one would only pray it 11 months because it would be a insult to believe any sin was too severe for God to handle.

Kaddish - Wikipedia

Still done today. And that is where many speculations of purgatory involving a place and timeline. The church says those are speculations what is for sure is that we will be cleansed and purified because NOTHING impure can enter heaven.

That is a person does not go to heaven and get cleaned up in heaven. Nothing impure can enter it. So you will be made clean. Where? Don't know except not in heaven. When? Don't know.


Any time Jesus Resurrected ANYONE he makes a request of the dead to get up and they are most definitely CLEANSED from death.

God is not God of the dead. Mark 12 27“He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken.”

Death is impure, and when you are resurrected you clearly have been cleansed by God.

 

[MarysSon]

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Romans 8:1,29-39 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I fully agree with these passages - especially the text in RED.
These promises are made to those who are IN CHRIST.

When a follower of Christ forsakes Him - he is no longer in Christ and is subject to the LOSS of his security as we are warned (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19). This is the entire reason for Paul recommending excommunication for those believers who have fallen into immorality (1 Cor. 5:1-13). The purpose of this discipline is to hopefully bring the person BACK to the Lord.

Paul wasn't writing about a person who was "never saved to begin with". He was writing about a member of the Body of Christ at Corinth. In verse 12 &13 - Paul makes it clear that this person is part of the Church - and NOT an outsider.
This person walked away from Christ and forsook the Body.

 

[AustinC]

I fully agree with these passages - especially the text in RED.
These promises are made to those who are IN CHRIST.

When a follower of Christ forsakes Him - he is no longer in Christ and is subject to the LOSS of his security as we are warned (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19). This is the entire reason for Paul recommending excommunication for those believers who have fallen into immorality (1 Cor. 5:1-13). The purpose of this discipline is to hopefully bring the person BACK to the Lord.

Paul wasn't writing about a person who was "never saved to begin with". He was writing about a member of the Body of Christ at Corinth. In verse 12 &13 - Paul makes it clear that this person is part of the Church - and NOT an outsider.
This person walked away from Christ and forsook the Body.

If you are immersed into Christ, you cannot forsake Christ. Even more so, Jesus promises not to leave us nor forsake us.

I trust what God tells me.

Hebrews 13:5-6 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you or forsake you.”

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Matthew 28:20 And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

 

[MarysSon]

If you are immersed into Christ, you cannot forsake Christ. Even more so, Jesus promises not to leave us nor forsake us.

I trust what God tells me.

Hebrews 13:5-6 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you or forsake you.”

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Matthew 28:20 And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Right - IF you are immersed in Christ.
EVERY time we sin, however - we are NOT immersed in Christ.

Every one of the verses you posted above is an admonition to STAY strong. If your false, man-made doctrine of Eternal Security were true, we wouldn't need these admonitions because we would automatically be doing these things - like robots . . .

 

[Yeshua1]

So, you will never sin again?

I will sin until death or resurrection, but that affect my sanctification, not my Justification!

 

[Yeshua1]

Right - IF you are immersed in Christ.
EVERY time we sin, however - we are NOT immersed in Christ.

Every one of the verses you posted above is an admonition to STAY strong. If your false, man-made doctrine of Eternal Security were true, we wouldn't need these admonitions because we would automatically be doing these things - like robots . . .

We are eternally Justified, as God already sees us now seated in Heavens in Christ, but RCC reverses salvation process! First its Pauline Justification, then we start sanctification, but RCC has us needing to become sanctify enough first to them merit Justification!

 

[Revmitchell]

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance that doesn’t fade away, reserved in Heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Yeshua1]

First of all - it's not "Pauline" justification.
He would be the first one to tell you that it is only through CHRIST - and NOT Paul.

Secondly - I understand it perfectly - I simply reject YOUR perversion of it.

The RCC rejected Pauline Justification at Trent, as you confuse Justification with Sanctification!

 

[MarysSon]

I will sin until death or resurrection, but that affect my sanctification, not my Justification!

So, when are you r fully sanctified?

 

[Yeshua1]

Since we are justified - we have a way out when we sin, which is through Christ.

It doesn't mean that we stand blameless for the rest of our lives no matter what we do.
We STILL have to repent and ask for forgiveness when we sin.

Sinning affects my fellowship with God, not my relationship!

 

[MarysSon]

The RCC rejected Pauline Justification at Trent, as you confuse Justification with Sanctification!

This is absolute nonsense.
Show me the excerpt from the document at Trent that "rejected" Paul's teaching on justification.

Since YOU keep making this claim - I want documented evidence.

 

[Revmitchell]

Sinning affects my fellowship with God, not my relationship!

Do you think you are going to change their minds? Do you think they are here to have reasonable discussions? They are not. They are here to fight what they feel is a disinformation campaign against Catholics. They are worried to death someone might say something against Catholicism (go figure, Baptists might disagree with Catholics, who knew ). So they are literally combatants. They do not care about you, this site, or whether or not you might be telling the truth. They are here for their propaganda purposes. You are wasting your time.

 

[MarysSon]

Sinning affects my fellowship with God, not my relationship!

That is a completely nonsensical statement.
Your fellowship with God IS your relationship with God.

 

[MarysSon]

Do you think you are going to change their minds? Do you think they are here to have reasonable discussions? They are not. They are here to fight what they feel is a disinformation campaign against Catholics. They are worried to death someone might say something against Catholicism. So they are literally combatants. They do not care about you, this site, or whether or not you might be telling the truth. They are here for their propaganda purposes. You are wasting your time.

No - I'm just here to stop the spreading of misinformation about Catholic teaching.
There's PLENTY of it around here . . .

 

[MarysSon]

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance that doesn’t fade away, reserved in Heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The "incorruptible and undefiled inheritance" is referring to the fact that we won't have corruptible BODIES in Heaven.
We will be fully glorified just as Jesus was glorified after the Resurrection.

Verse 5 states that all of this is guarded through FAITH. It's not guaranteed if we LOSE faith.

 

[Yeshua1]

So, when are you r fully sanctified?

When raised up glorified!

 

[Yeshua1]

This is absolute nonsense.
Show me the excerpt from the document at Trent that "rejected" Paul's teaching on justification.

Since YOU keep making this claim - I want documented evidence.

You mean that part that if any claimed to baith alone, that theye fully justified before God by grace alone faith alone, that they are claiming imputation of righteousness, let them be anathema?

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you think you are going to change their minds? Do you think they are here to have reasonable discussions? They are not. They are here to fight what they feel is a disinformation campaign against Catholics. They are worried to death someone might say something against Catholicism. So they are literally combatants. They do not care about you, this site, or whether or not you might be telling the truth. They are here for their propaganda purposes. You are wasting your time.

I just wish that we woulkd treat RCC and Sda in same light as we do Mormons and Jw, and