The False Doctrine of Purgatory

[Adonia]

I don't have a problem with a liturgy, when truth is actually shared (not foolish tradition that is empty of scripture). I think the mindless response becomes a routine that is basically meaningless to the vast majority of members, based upon how they live their daily lives.
This is the same with Creed's and Catechism. When it expresses truth, it can benefit. The New City Catechism is a good example. The RCC catechism is a bad example.

Enjoy your liturgy, but discern it's flaws and false doctrines.

What are my observations of a Baptist service? Well, it is basically one person getting up before the crowd and telling all of them his particular interpretation of the Scriptures. The mindless "Amen's" etc. by the congregation becomes meaningless as they look to their local "Grand Poobah" for their particular truth. Yes, I have seen many a Baptist in church on Sunday right after they were at the club drinking and carousing on Saturday night. So much for Baptists taking the Word of God to heart, hey brother?

Now if one of those congregants disagrees with what the Pastor preaches, what then? Well, if won't be long before they are out starting their own new Baptist denomination, claiming they now have the "real truth" of the Christian experience, adding but one more to the thousands out there.

Face it, you are in no position to question anyone else's walk with the Lord, especially when it comes each individuals heartfelt beliefs.

 

[Adonia]

We have the scriptures alone!

And you interpret them wrong alone, so I wouldn't be bragging.

 

[MarysSon]

And you interpret them wrong alone, so I wouldn't be bragging.

Yup - to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines and ALL claim that they were "led" by the Holy Spirit to their personal interpretations of Scripture.

 

[AustinC]

What flaws and false doctrines? You mean having an OT reading, an Epistle reading, and a Gospel reading is a flaw and a false doctrine? Reciting the Our Father prayer is a flaw and a false doctrine? Reciting either the Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed is a flaw and false doctrine? Having a sermon is a flaw and a false doctrine? Having the true Holy Communion is a flaw and a false doctrine? Sorry, but none of those things are flaws or false doctrines.

The flaws and false doctrines however resides in a faith tradition that has as it's highlight of worship the pulpit instead of the altar, a type of worship started by one man named John Smythe - that is where the aberration lies. It is a concept totally at odds with the way Christians worshipped for over 1500 years.

No, you are the folks with the made up and false stuff, not us. Our worship comes directly from the Holy Writ - every bit of it!

If we had time we could go through the 2000+ statements of the RCC catechism and check each one against scripture. I don't have that kind of time and frankly I think that's what the RCC is hoping by making it so massive.

However, since I am not attending your church, I cannot specifically address what you are receiving from the pulpit.

We already have threads on purgatory, Mary worship, veneration of saints, relic worship, etc...

 

[AustinC]

Your blasphemous words are going to land you in big trouble when you leave this earth.

Why?

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

God remains faithful to his children.

However, you, like the Pharisees and rulers of Jesus day, are trusting in your traditions and RCC system. Jesus overturned that legalism and Jesus had Paul write to the Galatians to call legalism "anathema." Your church has failed to understand justification by faith and thus teaches justification by works...the very thing Paul says is anathema.

 

[Yeshua1]

If we had time we could go through the 2000+ statements of the RCC catechism and check each one against scripture. I don't have that kind of time and frankly I think that's what the RCC is hoping by making it so massive.

However, since I am not attending your church, I cannot specifically address what you are receiving from the pulpit.

We already have threads on purgatory, Mary worship, veneration of saints, relic worship, etc...

The Church of Rome denies Pauline Justification, and that alone renders it Apostate!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yup - to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines and ALL claim that they were "led" by the Holy Spirit to their personal interpretations of Scripture.

The whole Gospel hangs on how we view the atonement, resurrection, and Pauline Justification, and Rome fails the test!

 

[AustinC]

The whole Gospel hangs on how we view the atonement, resurrection, and Pauline Justification, and Rome fails the test!

MarysSon neglects to inform that the RCC is splintered into just as many fragments within its sphere. From Marxist priests like the present pope to the radical person who flagellates himself to the feminist Catholic University that promotes abortion rights for women. All fall under the RCC sphere, yet none are in conformance. All that holds the twine is the twisted catechism that allows for any interpretation due to its purposeful muddy wording.
Only an ignorant person would imagine their is uniformity in the RCC.

 

[MarysSon]

The whole Gospel hangs on how we view the atonement, resurrection, and Pauline Justification, and Rome fails the test!

Ummmm, HOW so?

Besides - you left out the most important part of ALL:
God's grace.

 

[MarysSon]

MarysSon neglects to inform that the RCC is splintered into just as many fragments within its sphere. From Marxist priests like the present pope to the radical person who flagellates himself to the feminist Catholic University that promotes abortion rights for women. All fall under the RCC sphere, yet none are in conformance. All that holds the twine is the twisted catechism that allows for any interpretation due to its purposeful muddy wording.
Only an ignorant person would imagine their is uniformity in the RCC.

WRONG.
The Catholic Church is monolithic.

Those radicals - whether they be radical "Traditionalists" or radical Feminists are DISSIDENTS and therefore, Protestants.
Protestants aren't Catholics.

 

[MarysSon]

The Church of Rome denies Pauline Justification, and that alone renders it Apostate!

You keep making this claim yet you FAIL every time at pointing out where we "deny" it . . .

 

[Yeshua1]

You keep making this claim yet you FAIL every time at pointing out where we "deny" it . . .

Council of Trent: Canons on Justification. | CARM.org

 

[robycop3]

No such thing as purgatory. that came from the "mystery, Babylon" religion invented by Nimrod & Semiramis. if a person dies righteous, he/she goes to paradise for now. if one dies lost, he/she goes to "torments". There'll be no change in status, for ever. And the righteous won't be punished for their sins, as JESUS took their punishment in their stead.

Simple Scriptural truth; no private interp needed !

 

[MarysSon]

Council of Trent: Canons on Justification. | CARM.org

I don't read links.
YOU tell me where the Catholic Church "denies" Biblical justification.

 

[AustinC]

WRONG.
The Catholic Church is monolithic.

Those radicals - whether they be radical "Traditionalists" or radical Feminists are DISSIDENTS and therefore, Protestants.
Protestants aren't Catholics.

You clearly are ignoring the vast spectrums in your church. You have people in South Africa who have merged witchcraft with Roman Catholicism and practice it in the church. I worked with a Roman Catholic man who brought in occult magazines from the Roman Catholic faction in which he worshipped. Then I have met feminists who follow the social gospel and "Catholic Tradition" of the good neighbor, but are appalled if you speak of God in the masculine voice.
Your church is all over the place in what parishioners are believing and doing.

 

[Adonia]

Your church has failed to understand justification by faith and thus teaches justification by works...

Not so. We believe in justification by faith where the New Covenant is written on the heart and to love God and love your neighbor is given to us as an "inner principle" to obey - that is the faith that justifies and such a thing grants us the gift of the spirit.

You folks however believe that faith justifies (made up by Luther) by bringing about the imputation of Christ's righteousness - that we are accounted righteous for Christ's sake in spite of our own sins and failures. No where in the New Testament do we find that kind of teaching at all.

God will judge each of us according to his works as the Holy Scriptures so clearly tells us. (Matt 25:31-46), (Rev 20:11-15), (John 5:28-29)

 

[Adonia]

If we had time we could go through the 2000+ statements of the RCC catechism and check each one against scripture. I don't have that kind of time and frankly I think that's what the RCC is hoping by making it so massive.

However, since I am not attending your church, I cannot specifically address what you are receiving from the pulpit.

We already have threads on purgatory, Mary worship, veneration of saints, relic worship, etc...

So you cannot prove anywhere where the Mass is unbiblical in any way, shape, manner, or form. That was my question to you - tell me where the Mass is unbiblical. So in order to avoid answering the question you obfuscate and jump around just like a politician. How nice.

 

[Salty]

I don't read links.
YOU tell me where the Catholic Church "denies" Biblical justification.

and just why will you not read links?

 

[Adonia]

You have people in South Africa who have merged witchcraft with Roman Catholicism and practice it in the church.

Not authorized.

I worked with a Roman Catholic man who brought in occult magazines from the Roman Catholic faction in which he worshipped.

Again, such a thing is not allowed. The man is obviously involved in a serious sinful action. He has removed himself from being a faithful Catholic.

Then I have met feminists who follow the social gospel and "Catholic Tradition" of the good neighbor, but are appalled if you speak of God in the masculine voice.

Again these people are in error. Some of them have been taken to task by the Bishop concerned. They are not being faithful to the church's teachings if they persist.

Your church is all over the place in what parishioners are believing and doing.

These are renegades within the church is all I can say and are not at all representative of the great majority of faithful Catholics.

 

[AustinC]

Not so. We believe in justification by faith where the New Covenant is written on the heart and to love God and love your neighbor is given to us as an "inner principle" to obey - that is the faith that justifies and such a thing grants us the gift of the spirit.

You folks however believe that faith justifies (made up by Luther) by bringing about the imputation of Christ's righteousness - that we are accounted righteous for Christ's sake in spite of our own sins and failures. No where in the New Testament do we find that kind of teaching at all.

God will judge each of us according to his works as the Holy Scriptures so clearly tells us. (Matt 25:31-46), (Rev 20:11-15), (John 5:28-29)

Paul agrees with Luther.

Romans 3:21-31 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.