Yes, there are others. WE should be those others.
The point is that most non-Catholics use this verse to downplay or denigrate Mary. If anything - this is a positive praise of her - not an insult dismissal of her importance.
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The false doctrine of the Immaculate Conception
- Thread starter Hobie
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The point is that most non-Catholics use this verse to downplay or denigrate Mary. If anything - this is a positive praise of her - not an insult dismissal of her importance.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
That's very easy to do, and should result in you believing God's word over the word of any man or group of men if you count such things as His word above the words of men... who can and often do lie.
Using a Roman Catholic-approved Bible, here are some of those words:
" And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." ( Luke 1:46-48, Douai-Rheims ).
Mary confessed to God being her Saviour.
No one confesses to God being their Saviour without also knowing that they are a sinner in need of a Saviour.
Only sinners need a Saviour.
" For there is no just man upon earth, that doth good, and sinneth not." ( Ecclesiastes 7:21, Douai-Rheims ).
" For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God." ( Romans 3:23, Douai-Rheims ).
ALL have sinned, even Mary.
Respectfully, this has been presented to you many times, @MarysSon.
Apparently the verses you desire to be shown to you, are just not enough to convince you that all of mankind are sinners, even Mary.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
" Him, who knew no sin, he hath made sin for us, that we might be made the justice of God in him. " ( 2 Corinthians 5:21, Douai-Rheims ).
" And you know that he appeared to take away our sins, and in him there is no sin. " ( 1 John 3:5, Douai-Rheims ).
" For unto this are you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow his steps.
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth." ( 1 Peter 2:21-22, Douai-Rheims ).
All except for Jesus are sinners.
Please show book, chapter and verse for Mary being sinless.
Just because a group of men declare her as sinless, does not mean that God does.
Mary's importance goes exactly as far as Scripture declares her importance:
The mother of the Son of God in the flesh, and no more.
Greatly blessed of God to bear the Saviour in body.
That is all Mary ever was, or ever will be.
Blessed of God, and yet a sinner...as are all of God's children.
It's not an insult to declare her as Scripture declares her...
One of us in body and deed, blessed with the gift of eternal life and doubly blessed by God using her in the course of performing yet another miracle...
To birth a child ( not just any child, but His Son in the flesh ) without a man ever knowing her in the biblical sense.
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First f all - I already addressed the first part.
Mary indeed needed a Savior - as we ALL do. The difference is that she was saved from her conception. An ancient metaphor best describes this as follows:
Sin is a puddle of mud that we fall into. We are pulled out of that mud by Christ, when we come to Him. Mary was prevented from falling into the mud in the first place.
As for Ecc. 7:21 and Rom. 3:23, these verses use inclusive language - not literal language.
If it was literal - that would means that Christ Himself would have sinned. It would also mean that infants are guilty of sinning - which is silly because they do not have full use of their faculties.
An example of inclusive language would be, "Everybody in town is talking about the new movie that just came out" or, "Everyone in town came out for the parade." Matt. 2:1 tells us that Herod was "greatly troubled" about the Magi's visit "and ALL of Jerusalem with him."
Really??
"ALL" of Jerusalem was "greatly troubled"?? Even the babies and the bedridden and the mentally challenged?? This verse is a prime example of inclusive language - a generalization, like Ecc. 7:21 and Rom. 3:23.
Besides - Romans 3 is based on Psalm 14, which is talking about the wicked - not "everybody". In Verse 5 of this Psalm, God keeps company with the "Righteous".
Gee - I thought there was NONE righteous (Rom. 10:3)??
YOUR turn . . .
NONE of the verses you presented support the claim above in RED.
Please post a verse that does . . .
I explained ALL of this back in post #10.
Please refer to that post and respond.
Soooooo, God can't make a person sinless unless He does it YOUR way - is that it??
He HAS to make her entire lineage sinless??
Can you show me where the Bible makes this claim??
The Bible NEVER claims Mary was sinless, as she was a sinner, but the Holy Spirit conception bypassed the Fall affecting Jesus!
The truth is that every woman saved by the grace of God is equally important in sight of God as Mary is!
Really?
Soooooo, out of ALL of the women in history - God chooses Mary. to become the ONLY woman to become impregnated by the Holy Spirit and to deliver GOD incarnate to the world.
Yet, that doesn't set her apart because YOU say so?
The Angel of the Lord greets Mary by calling her "Kecharitomene", which translates as completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace. It indicates a PAST even with a permanent condition and is not used for ANYBODY else in ALL of Scripture.
Yet, that doesn't set her apart because YOU say so?
Your standards are bizarre . . .
That is absolutely untrue.
As I educated you in my last post and several others - The Angel of the Lord greets Mary by calling her "Kecharitomene", which translates as completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace. It indicates a PAST even with a permanent condition and is not used for ANYBODY else in ALL of Scripture.
To be fully and completely and perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace is what we are in Heaven.
This is what we are BEING MADE into during our lifetime.
Mary ALREADY was in this condition.
And yet the worst sinner saved by he Grace of God will be equal to her in heaven!
Amen, as she is NOT all of those things Rome ascribes her as being!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
How about addressing it from the perspective of one who believes God's words.
All one has to do is believe the very words.
You're not believing the word of God, sir.
You're believing the words of an institution run by those who think that they are obeying God, I'm sorry to say.
Sure, we can do that if you wish.
The Bible states this, while Rome states that, they always go with Rome!
JESUS is the "Wisdomk of God" - not Mary.
And anybody who claims that the Catholic Church teaches "worship" of Mary is lying.
Why don't you simply argue n the points made in this thread instead of resorting to dishonesty?
As for the rest of your diatribe - I suggest you read what I already responded with in post #45 . . .
The Church ascribes to Mary what Scripture does.
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