The Fate of the Worshipers of the Antichrist

Chris, actually I have a scripture to correct you and prove that the most important thing in the world is indeed to KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF HELL and here's the scripture: Luke 19:10 Jesus says, "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." You see, Chris, when you get somebody saved today in the Church age, you not only get them saved from everlasting hellfire, but you also ensure that they will be not LEFT BEHIND AFTER THE RAPTURE! Please see this website which shows in detail about the demonic creatures who sting people with undescribable pain (perhaps this will help you see the importance of KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF HELL): http://www.geocities.com/savedbytheblood777/777.html?988358431450
Rev. Steve Komnick, Missionary/School Evangelist

 

But for whose glory are lost sinners saved?

1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, Chapter III, article 3:

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,[7] to the praise of His glorious grace;[8] others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.[9]

7. I Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8. Eph. 1:5-6
9. Rom. 9:22-23; Jude 1:4

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
But for whose glory are lost sinners saved?

1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, Chapter III, article 3:

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,[7] to the praise of His glorious grace;[8] others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.[9]

7. I Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8. Eph. 1:5-6
9. Rom. 9:22-23; Jude 1:4<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joseph

 

Beloved Brethren:
I have several scriptures to support my viewpoint:
"For him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
SUPPOSE YOUR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE WAS ON FIRE AT 3AM AND YOU FAILED TO MAKE YOUR BEST EFFORT TO WAKE HIM UP AND WARN HIM; YOU WOULD BE GUILTY OF MURDER ACCORDING TO JAMES 2:10, "FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL."
So, in the same way, a Christian is guilty of SPIRITUAL MURDER when he fails to warn his neighbor of his impending doom in the everlasting Lake of Fire.
Luke 19:10 Jesus says, "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
So, without any doubt, the MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD is KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF HELL!
Thanks and praise to King Jesus, the resurrected Son of the living God!
TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY!!! http://www.geocities.com/savedbytheshedbloodofgod/best7.html?986535365030
Rev. Steve Komnick, Missionary/School Evangelist

 

So, is that more important than worshipping God in truth and in spirit? Is that more important than preaching the truth? Many Tim Lehayeites who have Left (the scripture) Behind would say that it is ok to sell some psychological mind trip if it leads people to faith in Christ even though it is based on man-made fear and not scripture. What do you think?

Joseph

 

Thanks and praise to God that
SALVATION IS OF THE LORD!
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
"How shall they hear without a preacher?"
(HOW SHALL THEY BE SAVED BOTH FROM THE TERRORS OF THE SOON-COMING REIGN OF THE ANTICHRIST AND SAVED FROM THE EVERLASTING LAKE OF FIRE WITHOUT A PREACHER?) http://www.geocities.com/savedbytheshedbloodofgod/best7.html?986535365030 http://www.geocities.com/SavedByTheShedBLOODofEmmanuel
Rev. Steve Komnick, Missionary/School Evangelist

 

My Beloved Brethren:
For those people who reject Jesus Christ as their personal Savior prior to the Rapture, being LEFT BEHIND is definately a REALITY and NOT SOME PSYCHOLOGICAL MIND TRIP! "Then two shall be in the field; one shall be taken, and one shall be left. (LEFT BEHIND)" according to the Words of the Creator of the entire universe, our resurrected Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ, (GOD THE SON, AND THE LIVING SON OF THE LIVING GOD)!!! http://www.geocities.com/savedbytheshedbloodofgod/best7.html?986535365030 http://www.geocities.com/SavedByTheShedBLOODofEmmanuel
Rev. Steve Komnick, Missionary/School Evangelist

 

Steve,

Rejection of the pre trib rapture theory is not equal to rejecting the Second Coming of Christ . The pre trib theory is only a little over 150 yrs old. Most believers historically have been Post trib.

[ April 29, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]

 

The Day of the Lord, the Second Coming and the Rapture

The Day of the Lord as presented in Scripture presents a large problem to both dispensationalists and postmillennialists. The dispensationalist divides the Day of the Lord into two parts, in order to account for the invisible rapture of the church theory. At some points the day of the Lord is meant to be Christ coming to rapture his saints out of harms way prior to the tribulation, and at other times it means the final day of the Lord, at the end of all time. Depending on just which day of the Lord one is talking about is dependent on one’s eschatological presuppositions.

In the two-phase, dispensational second coming, the secret rapture is proposed in order to accommodate the immanency necessity, and then after a literal 7-year tribulation, Christ comes again in victory. No where does the New Testament teach a second and a third coming of Christ. This also present another problem: if we are going to interpret literally, as the dispensationalist says we must, then 7 years to the day after the church mysteriously disappears, Christ must return. It cannot be 6 ½ years, or 7.1 years, or 7 years and 1 hour, but it must literally be 7 years. Thus, it renders Jesus words meaningless when he said, “But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father”, Mark 13:31,32 (ASV). If dispensationalism were true, you could set the world clock to the very second of Christ’s return; exactly 7 years to the millisecond after the rapture.

The postmillennialist also runs into trouble with the day of the Lord. If the Second Coming, occurred in A.D. 70, it was just as invisible as in the rapture theory. This also divides up the Second coming into two parts. This also does damage to the words of Christ to the high priest in Mark 14:62 “And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven", (ASV). If there is any invisible return of Christ, his word is nullified.

Hoekema states, “There is, however, no sound Scriptural basis for the position that the Second Coming of Christ must be divided into these two phases.” Among reasons Hoekema gives is that (1) it cannot be derived from the New Testament words for the Second Coming; (2) New Testament passages that describe the great tribulation do not indicate that the church will be removed from the earth prior to the tribulation beginning; (3) the most famous New Testament passages which teach the “rapture” do not teach it pretribulationally; (4) Christ’s Second Coming involves both a coming with his people as well as for his people; and (5) no argument for a two-stage Second Coming can be argued from the teaching that the great tribulation will be an outpouring of God’s wrath on the world.

Hoekema agrees that the church will not be the subject of the wrath of God, but nowhere in Scripture does it say that the church will be free from the wrath of evil men. Many in the church have been given a false hope that they will not suffer any tribulation, either from God or from man, due to the pre-trib rapture theory.

In Scripture, the Day of the Lord is clearly one event only. It may be more than a literal 24-hour day, or it may be less, but it is clearly only one eschatological occurrence. According to the Scriptures, the Day of the Lord is that day of judgment (Matt. 7:22; John 12:48); the day of resurrection (John 6:39,40; 44; 54; 22:24 to be accompanied by celestial signs (Acts 2:20); a time when it is good to be found blameless (I Cor. 1:8); a day of destruction and salvation (I Cor. 5:5); a day of full understanding (II Cor. 1:14); it comes like a thief in the night (I Thess. 5:2); it is a day of mercy (II Tim. 1:18) and rewards (II Tim. 4:8). It is also the day of the last trumpet when the elect are gathered (Matt. 24:3;31); the dead are raised (I Cor. 15:52); the Lord descends with a shout (I Thess. 4:6); the mystery is accomplished (Rev. 10:7); and the eternal state is brought in (Rev. 11:15). Clearly, the rapture, Second Coming and Day of the Lord all occur at the same time, as Christ said, “No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day”, John 6:44 (ASV).


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kiffin:
Steve,

Rejection of the pre trib rapture theory is not equal to rejecting the Second Coming of Christ . The pre trib theory is only a little over 150 yrs old. Most believers historically have been Post trib.

[ April 29, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kiffin:
The pre trib theory is only a little over 150 yrs old. Most believers historically have been Post trib.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There are books over 300 years old which detail the pre-mil, pre-trib rapture position exactly as most dispensational premillenialists present it today.

It is an error to say "most believers historically have been Post trib." That is a very subjective statement subject to your definition of "believers." Most of the historic dissenting churches have been pre-mil, with the timing of the rapture left either unsaid, or in doubt. Only a few later Baptists such as Spurgeon were openly Post Trib.

 

Dr. Cassidy:

Dispensationalism began in the mid 1800s with JN Darby. While premillennialism has been a belief since early on, it has always been the historic, no rapture type. Amil and premil existed side by side for most of church history with a later birth of postmil. And the postmil position was by far the majority position of our baptist fathers. Dispy pretrib is the new kid on the block

 

Thomas,

There are a few obscure statements 300 yrs ago that may talk of some sort of belief in a pre trib rapture but that is open for debate. The facts are that Pre Trib has it's birth with Dispensationalism. Dispensational Pre Mill of Scofield is differant from Historic Pre mill that Spurgeon and many of the Church Fathers held to.

Dispensationalism as Chris stated come from Darby and Scofield. Actually a vast majority of Baptists were Post Mill (I'm not) before the 20th century. Most in the 1800's were Post Mill due in lage part to Dr. Charles Hodge's teachings on this. The idea of a Pre Trib rapture is totally absent from the 1644 London, 1655 Midland, 1689 London because it was not invented and made popular til Darby and Scofield.

[ April 29, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]

 

Sorry about the typing of the last post.
Thought I had followed instructions about
dealing with "hard returns". Obviously not.
Karen

 

Dear Karen:

Even if the tribulation did not begin "right away" after the rapture, a literal 7 year period demands a known, exact time when Christ would return upon which the remaining folks could set their watches. A known date flies in the face of Scripture which says "of this time no one knows but the Father".

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kiffin:
There are a few obscure statements 300 yrs ago that may talk of some sort of belief in a pre trib rapture but that is open for debate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins.

-Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627)

[ April 30, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
Dispensationalism began in the mid 1800s with JN Darby. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Opponents of pretribulationism have often tried to "poison the well" by contending that a pre-trib understanding of the Bible is novel and/or has sprung from a polluted source. However, the last few years have witnessed the discovery of voices from the past testifying to a two-stage return of Christ. The latest pre-Darby voice to join the chorus is that of an early American Baptist pastor and educator, Morgan Edwards (1722-95).

During his student days at Bristol Baptist Seminary in England (1742-44), Morgan Edwards wrote an essay for eschatology class on his views of Bible prophecy. This essay was later published in Philadelphia (1788) under the following title: Two Academical Exercises on Subjects Bearing the following Titles; Millennium, Last-Novelties. (This is actually one of the shorter titles for a book published in his day.) The term in the title "Last-Novelties" refers to what we would call today the eternal state; "novelties" refers to the new conditions of the future new heavens and new earth. Upon reading the 56 page work, it is clear that Edwards published it unchanged from his student days. Thus, it represents a view developed by the early 1740s.

Mr. Morgan's views are not only pre-mil, pre-trib, but also mildly dispensational. I suggest you find a copy and read it.

 

Thomas,

For that one statement you can find hundreds of Amill, Historic Premill statements of the Church Fathers. The statement "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." Could be interpreted to teach Mid Trib or Pre Wrath also. I would also like to know who translated it. Grant Jeffrey has in vain tried to translate Church Father's writings into Dispensationalism but with a very bias pre trib spin that misrepresents early Church teaching. Regardeless the statement is obscure though it could possibly show some sort of pre trib belief in some part of the early Church but I would be curious who did the translation since no pre trib belief can be found in Clement, Ignatius, Ireanous, Shepherd of Hermes, Augustine and certaintly is no where to be found among the Reformers, Anabaptists or early Baptists.

 

Beloved Brethren:
Thanks and praise be unto our resurrected Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ that those of us who have trusted God's holy shed BLOOD for the attonement for our sins will not be here when the Man of Sin (the Antichrist) shows up! According to the prophesy of Daniel (from the Old Testament) the prophetic time clock would stop ticking when the Messiah would be "cut off" (killed) (executed) (crucified). According to that particular prophesy, God would deal specially with the nation of Israel for 70 weeks (or sevens) of years (70 times 7 = 490 years). When Jesus Christ was crucified after 69 weeks of years (after 483 years), it was like a "timeout" at a basketball game, however, this particular "timeout" has already run approxamately 2000 years. After God takes His prized possession (the Church) home to Heaven, then God will deal specially with the nation of Israel for the 70th week of years (for seven years). So, beloved brethren, let's just do the descent thing by keeping as many people out of Hell as possible before our opportunity for winning lost souls to the Savior is SOON (Rev. 22:7,12,20) over!!! http://www.geocities.com/savedbytheshedbloodofgod/best7.html?986535365030 http://www.geocities.com/SavedByTheShedBLOODofEmmanuel http://www.geocities.com/savedbytheshedbloodofjesus/22.html
John 3:16, Romans 3:23, James 2:10, Romans 5:8, Romans 6:23, Revelation 20:14,15, Mark 9:44,46,48, Revelation 14:11a, Ephesians 1:7, Matthew 1:23b, Romans 10:9, Revelation 3:20, Romans 10:13.
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (from everlasting torment in the eternal Lake of Fire)." (Romans 10:13).
"And others save with fear, PULLING THEM OUT OF THE FIRE. . ." (Jude 23a)
With love in our soon-returning (Revelation 22:7,12,20), resurrected Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Rev. Steve Komnick, Missionary/School Evangelist