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The fear of losing your salvation...a false fear or true motivator?
- Thread starter Skandelon
- Start date
Lacy Evans
New Member
KJV Matthew 24:46-51
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV 1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV Psalms 139:7-8
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
KJV Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Bartholomew
New Member
Mark 9
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
Bartholomew
New Member
Hi Skandelon,
Heaven exists now. God is in heaven. Jesus ascended there, and is sitting there now. However, he will COME BACK, and set up a kingdom (=kingdom of God=kingdom of heaven) on the earth. This will last 1,000 years. If you think about it, the Bible doesn't spend a great deal of time telling us about heaven - but there are many references to the kingdom. Many of them refer to something future ("thy kingdom come") and physical ("sit down" in the kingdom). Does that clarify it...?
Heaven exists now. God is in heaven. Jesus ascended there, and is sitting there now. However, he will COME BACK, and set up a kingdom (=kingdom of God=kingdom of heaven) on the earth. This will last 1,000 years. If you think about it, the Bible doesn't spend a great deal of time telling us about heaven - but there are many references to the kingdom. Many of them refer to something future ("thy kingdom come") and physical ("sit down" in the kingdom). Does that clarify it...?
Bartholomew,
The Kingdom of God is with us now! God the Holy Spirit is with men who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Everywhere that God is King, there too is the Kingdom of God!
If God is King in your life, you are in the Kingdom of God!
Don't attempt to circumscribe the Kingdom of God with Human understanding of boundaries, and dividing lines. That simply does not work!
The Kingdom of God is with us now! God the Holy Spirit is with men who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Everywhere that God is King, there too is the Kingdom of God!
If God is King in your life, you are in the Kingdom of God!
Don't attempt to circumscribe the Kingdom of God with Human understanding of boundaries, and dividing lines. That simply does not work!
God is King, from an eternal view this is true.
The kingdom of heaven as Bartholemew points out very well is the establishment of the reign of Christ from Jerusalem at his return. At this time he will be given the throne of David.
This is the throne which was set up for David when Israel rejected God as their king and requested Samuel appoint a king for them like the other nations. God annointed David. The throne of David is promised to Christ. All this comes down to the representation of the rule of David in Hebron for the short period the Bible records (6 months I believe) showing if you will the first coming of Christ; then during the milenial reign you will see Christ on the throne ruling in righteousness from Jerusalem (David ruling a united Israel).
Now, the Bible tells us Christ has ascended to the right hand of God and has sat down with God in his throne, Christ has not received his throne yet.
At the end of the 1000 years, satan will be released, he will deceive the nations once again they will rise against the kingdom of heaven. After this is defeated through Christ death and hell will give up their dead. This is the second resurrection.
At this time Christ will deliver the kingdom up to God and God shall be all in all.
The warnings of scripture referring to believers are speaking of the individual position within this kingdom period and not referring a possibility of falling from a Spiritual quickening in which they no longer are believers in the truth as shed in their hearts by the Holy Spirit. Just as there are different administrations given within the church, there are also different degrees of faith given. Whether we find basic fundamental agreement in all points is not necessary. But, the truth remains that having believed, by the power of the eternal Spirit of God, no one can then become an unbeliever.
Bro. Dallas
The kingdom of heaven as Bartholemew points out very well is the establishment of the reign of Christ from Jerusalem at his return. At this time he will be given the throne of David.
This is the throne which was set up for David when Israel rejected God as their king and requested Samuel appoint a king for them like the other nations. God annointed David. The throne of David is promised to Christ. All this comes down to the representation of the rule of David in Hebron for the short period the Bible records (6 months I believe) showing if you will the first coming of Christ; then during the milenial reign you will see Christ on the throne ruling in righteousness from Jerusalem (David ruling a united Israel).
Now, the Bible tells us Christ has ascended to the right hand of God and has sat down with God in his throne, Christ has not received his throne yet.
At the end of the 1000 years, satan will be released, he will deceive the nations once again they will rise against the kingdom of heaven. After this is defeated through Christ death and hell will give up their dead. This is the second resurrection.
At this time Christ will deliver the kingdom up to God and God shall be all in all.
The warnings of scripture referring to believers are speaking of the individual position within this kingdom period and not referring a possibility of falling from a Spiritual quickening in which they no longer are believers in the truth as shed in their hearts by the Holy Spirit. Just as there are different administrations given within the church, there are also different degrees of faith given. Whether we find basic fundamental agreement in all points is not necessary. But, the truth remains that having believed, by the power of the eternal Spirit of God, no one can then become an unbeliever.
Bro. Dallas
Lacy Evans
New Member
Yelsew2
I know of no one that believes in a literal future Kingdom where Christ reigns over the Earth from David's throne in Jerusalem who "denies" any of those things. What is your point?
Lacy
I know of no one that believes in a literal future Kingdom where Christ reigns over the Earth from David's throne in Jerusalem who "denies" any of those things. What is your point?
Lacy
yelsew2,
I don't think my post denies that. I remember saying that God is king, even over rebellious subjects and you replied something like that if I didn't know what the kingdom of God was I was not in it.
Now, I have never said I didn't know what this kingdom was, only there is in my opinion a distinction made in scripture between this kingdom and that of the kingdom of heaven.
And then there are further distinctions in the family and the church of God.
Now, this fear which is the topic of this thread is a motivator, but not to gain nor keep eternal life, but toward the position in the kingdom of heaven.
That is my belief and my position. Whether you receive it or not will not change it if it is true, nor will it change it if I am wrong.
Bro. Dallas
I don't think my post denies that. I remember saying that God is king, even over rebellious subjects and you replied something like that if I didn't know what the kingdom of God was I was not in it.
Now, I have never said I didn't know what this kingdom was, only there is in my opinion a distinction made in scripture between this kingdom and that of the kingdom of heaven.
And then there are further distinctions in the family and the church of God.
Now, this fear which is the topic of this thread is a motivator, but not to gain nor keep eternal life, but toward the position in the kingdom of heaven.
That is my belief and my position. Whether you receive it or not will not change it if it is true, nor will it change it if I am wrong.
Bro. Dallas
If you do not deny those things then you are compelled to acknowledge that the Kingdom of God is among us today!
I do not deny these things. I also am not compelled to acknowledge anything. You have denied that anyone rebellious against God is subject to his kingdom. Then you declare my belief to put man made boundaries on the kingdom of God; I put no boundaries on his kingdom, the boundary I distinguish is put on the kingdom of heaven. That literal reign of Christ (as I believe) from the throne of David in Jerusalem for 1000 years.
At the end of this time...well...read my earlier post, I believe it summarizes my belief fairly well so there is no need to repeat it here.
Bro. Dallas
I do not deny these things. I also am not compelled to acknowledge anything. You have denied that anyone rebellious against God is subject to his kingdom. Then you declare my belief to put man made boundaries on the kingdom of God; I put no boundaries on his kingdom, the boundary I distinguish is put on the kingdom of heaven. That literal reign of Christ (as I believe) from the throne of David in Jerusalem for 1000 years.
At the end of this time...well...read my earlier post, I believe it summarizes my belief fairly well so there is no need to repeat it here.
Bro. Dallas
Frogman,
Lets's ask another way.
Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is God?
Do you believe that The Holy Spirit is with man today?
Do you acknowledge God as King in your life?
If yes to all three questions, then you are of the Kingdom of God, which is the Kingdom of Heaven!
Yes, Jesus will reign on this earth among men living in the flesh for a millennium, but that does not negate the Kingdom of God that exists among men today.
Lets's ask another way.
Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is God?
Do you believe that The Holy Spirit is with man today?
Do you acknowledge God as King in your life?
If yes to all three questions, then you are of the Kingdom of God, which is the Kingdom of Heaven!
Yes, Jesus will reign on this earth among men living in the flesh for a millennium, but that does not negate the Kingdom of God that exists among men today.
First of all, 1 Cor. is an after the fact editorial of the events that have taken place, and the Christ is not in need of fulfilling any of Paul's writings. Everything that Paul writes of relative to God,is a done deal, not waiting to be done.
Revelation is a portrayal of what John saw when he was taken in spirit "into heaven" where he was shown more than any man has the ability to comprehend while in the flesh. Though the events of Revelation 20 remain the future for us, they are the finished work of God!
Everything needed for our salvation is a finished work, with this exception; We must hear the word of God and believe, and in believing establish FAITH as our modus operandi. For it is through FAITH that we are saved!
Dear Yelsew2, you must distinguish between the eternal view of God in which this passage at 1 Corinthians is surely complete, but in time, it certainly awaiting fulfillment.
Otherwise I see your point but wish to respectfully disagree with it. Christ has fulfilled this passage in the eternal view, but not yet brought it to pass in the fulness of time.
Or else it would seem to me death and hell have already given up their dead etc.
God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton
Otherwise I see your point but wish to respectfully disagree with it. Christ has fulfilled this passage in the eternal view, but not yet brought it to pass in the fulness of time.
Or else it would seem to me death and hell have already given up their dead etc.
God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton
Frogman, I certainly agree with you that
1 cor 15:23-24 and rev 20 is futuristic
Christ is our forerunner. he testified of HIS accomplishments. the first man.
now its all mans turn to experience this activity of Jesus as Jesus christ lives THROUGH each man.
we see today the firstfruit (vessel of mercy) defeating death and hell.
yet it is not the kingdoms turn. the kingdoms turn will be in the second resurrection. at the great white throne judgement.
this is a very slow process of delivering up the kingdom. this is mentioned as taking 1000 years. (yet 10X10X10 is metaphoric for complete multiplied)
this could take a million years. who knows?
1 cor 15:23-24 and rev 20 is futuristic
Yelsew, What? after the fact editorial...?
Christ is our forerunner. he testified of HIS accomplishments. the first man.
now its all mans turn to experience this activity of Jesus as Jesus christ lives THROUGH each man.
we see today the firstfruit (vessel of mercy) defeating death and hell.
yet it is not the kingdoms turn. the kingdoms turn will be in the second resurrection. at the great white throne judgement.
this is a very slow process of delivering up the kingdom. this is mentioned as taking 1000 years. (yet 10X10X10 is metaphoric for complete multiplied)
this could take a million years. who knows?