According to this post, if the repentant believer dies before he is immersed in water, God will not place him into union with Christ. That is heresy. And I don't use that word very often.
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The First New Covenant Sermon
- Thread starter adisciplinedlearner
- Start date
According to this post, if the repentant believer dies before he is immersed in water, God will not place him into union with Christ. That is heresy. And I don't use that word very often.
You never mentioned anything about the blood. You told me personally that my sins were not washed away because I had not been baptized, even though I had trusted in the shed blood of Christ two years previous to that time, two years previous to the time of my baptism. Now that is heresy.
Dr. Walter
New Member
He simply makes them concurrent with each other which produces an impossible dilemma for him.
He must admit that there is no HEART beleif in the gospel, no confession of salvation with the mouth (Rom. 10:10) no regeneration (Eph. 2:10a "created in Christ" UNTO good works) until that person physically steps into the water and makes that profession at that point of time.
Therefore, his candidates for baptism are unbelieving, unrepentant, God haters ("enmity" - Rom. 8:7) rebellious ("not subject to the law of God" unconfessing ignorant blind unregenerates (Eph. 4:18).
I have challenged over and over to find ONE EXAMPLE where anyone baptized such a person ANYWHERE in Scriptures???
HE HAS NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO MEET THIS CHALLENGE!!!!!!!
But your not separating them properly. See John 5:24....when does a person cross over from death to life? The moment they believe.
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Dr. Walter
New Member
Yes, explain how the New Covenant did not start until Pentecost and the first New Covenant sermon was not preached until Pentecost and yet Christ can tell his hearers this using the present tense? Is he telling them of another way of salvation apart from the New Covenant salvation?
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
Sister Amy, I do not know what becomes of the unimmersed repentant believer. God is his Judge, not me.
Dr. Walter
New Member
Wait! You have already denied there is such a thing as unimmersed repentant believer (Rom. 10:10)! You can't have your cake and eat it to!
That is a non answer copout. IF a believer isn't put into union with Christ UNTIL they are immersed, then they must go to hell if they die beforehand, according to your theology. There is no other answer.
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
Words like repent, believe, and baptism are often used in the New Testament as shorthand for conversion to Christ. Sometimes, these words are used to refer to the exact same spiritual blessing received by a Christian convert. We enter into the experience of salvation when we are converted to Christ.
I think you should go back to a Baptist church! Well maybe not the same one you left....nevertheless.
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
This is no cop-out. We can hold out hope for unimmersed repentant believers because the Old Covenant saints were also unimmersed repentant believers.
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
The only Baptist in the Bible was an unimmersed, unchurched individual. I am a disciple of Christ, not a disciple of John the Baptist.
And yet you say that a believer is not united to Christ until they are immersed in baptism. Do you not see this is wrong thinking? If a believer has been converted, they are in Christ.
Dr. Walter
New Member
But you have restricted conversion to Christ within the confines of water. There is no conversion to Christ before baptism (Rom. 10:10) according to your position! There is no belief with the heart. There is no confession with the mouth.
Why then would he tell lost Jews to believe as your position is there was no New Covenant sermon until Pentecosts Acts 2:38?
Are you reversing yourself now and claiming that John 5:24 is the first New Covenant Sermon????
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
We are baptized into Christ, into His death, burial, and resurrection, and into His one body. This is how we get "into Christ."
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
We are part of the house church movement, and we worship in our home. We are not willing to attend the services of any denominational church. Denominations divide the one body of Christ.
Baptism is a symbol of Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is what bring us into union with Christ.
When Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit, was he in union with Christ at that time? Or did he have to wait until he was immersed in water?
Sounds spiritual.....not!