The First Sin

[MRCoon]

So who committed the first sin? Lucifer, Eve, or Adam? This came up in my Friday Evening Teen Bible Study and was an interesting discussion.

 

[timothy27]

Both Adam and Eve sinned. Eve because she disobeyed God's commandment, and Adam because he was the spiritual leader of their union, and he stood there and watched her take the fruit when he should have stepped in and stopped her.

 

[TheWinDork]

This is something that ha always bothered me, Why do Baptist's refer to Adam and Eve as the First Sinners? and blame THEM for the fall of man? When Satan, who was originally named Lucifier, and was a Arc-Angel in Heaven, fell and thereby became the Enemy and Axis for Evil of all man kind. Why not just blame satan? instead of pinning it on Adam and Eve.

I do know the answer to this, But I just wanna see what others might say about it.

I'll answer my own question!

Because God gave man a clear choice, Don't eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil and Live in a Glorified State forever or do eat of it and sin and fall, Satan tempted, MAN CHOSE TO SIN! It was never forced upon them! and they did, and thus the total depraved state of man today. Satan's overthrow had nothing to do with us. He was a Spiritual Being that was cast out of Heaven and not human creation, But rather a created SPIRITUAL BEING, AN ANGEL! Man was a physical being. We were made in GOD'S IMAGE, But were Physical Beings and Satan, because of utter hatred of God. Attempted to distroy mankind through sin, because he knew that God was a Holy and righteous God and in his presence NO SIN could exist, so, He choose to distroy man kind through sin, But God, Because he loved his creation so much, chose to make a way of atonement for them, his only Begotten Son, Jesus.

How's that for an answer?

-TheWinDork

 

[johnp.]

Hello MRCoon.

Lucifer might bring up a nice argument. Jesus is Lucifer.

Adam's sin was not that he stood by while she ate of the tree, Adam was under a covenant of works, the only thing he needed to avoid was the tree.

We don't know what commandment(s) Satan was under so we cannot say he sinned first. Eve was told not to touch the tree and she sinned openly first. Her sin involved her and the snake (for the deception).

A bit of speculation. Adam stood behind Eve and waited to see what would happen to her. When he saw she was ok he ate and that involved us.
The thing is that Eve would have known something happen because she died spiritually before she handed the apple over. She did not warn him.

...But I just wanna see what others might say about it. (TheWinDork)

Adam and Eve were told not to eat the fruit, the fact that they did, for whatever reason, means they broke God's law and must suffer for it.
Adam knew what he was after, Eve was deceived because she desired the fruit but Adam knew. He is held responsible for his actions, no one else can be blamed for our actions.

john.

 

[timothy27]

Adam's sin was not that he stood by while she ate of the tree,


I would disagree, being the leader of their union he was responsible for leading her to the correct course of action. Standing by and waiting to see what happened instead of telling her not to eat from the fruit was his failure and sin.

Are you married Johnp? If your wife is disobeying God's commandment and you know this yet do nothing are not responsible? Your doing nothing is a sin, since you are the spiritual leader the same way Adam was.

 

[webdog]

Sin is a human condition, a human attribute if you will. Satan could not have been the first sinner, because Christ's death atoned for sin, meaning Satan and his angels' sin would have been atoned for, also.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by TheWinDork:
This is something that ha always bothered me, Why do Baptist's refer to Adam and Eve as the First Sinners? and blame THEM for the fall of man? When Satan, who was originally named Lucifier, and was a Arc-Angel in Heaven, fell and thereby became the Enemy and Axis for Evil of all man kind. Why not just blame satan? instead of pinning it on Adam and Eve.

I do know the answer to this, But I just wanna see what others might say about it.

I'll answer my own question!
-TheWinDork

UHHHH, it's pretty basic why we blame Adam (not necessarily Eve). The Bible blames Adam.

Romans 5:12-14 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned -- 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Satan is not blamed for the plight of the human race, Adam is. Eve is not blamed for the plight of the human race, Adam is. Eve was deceived and sinned first (humanly speaking), but it was Adam's sin that plunged the human race into sin. He was our representative head and in Adam, all die.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by webdog:
Sin is a human condition, a human attribute if you will. Satan could not have been the first sinner, because Christ's death atoned for sin, meaning Satan and his angels' sin would have been atoned for, also.

Only if you believe in universal atonement. (let's just leave it at that and not turn this into a C/A thread)

 

[webdog]

Romans 6:10 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. But now that he is alive, he lives for God.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by webdog:
Romans 6:10 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. But now that he is alive, he lives for God.

I'm not sure what your point is here, but I am assuming it is a universal atonement proof-text for you. So, let's look at context...

Romans 6:8-10 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

The "all" here is all within the category of the "we" in verse 8. All this says is that Christ died for all that died with Him. Only those who believe (the elect) died with Christ. Therefore the death that He died, He died to sin once for all (of them).

 

[Scarlett O.]

Originally posted by timothy27:
I would disagree, being the leader of their union he was responsible for leading her to the correct course of action. Standing by and waiting to see what happened instead of telling her not to eat from the fruit was his failure and sin.

And I would have to disagree with you. The Bible says that he was "with her", but it doesn't say what you say, that he was "standing by waiting to see what happened".

Eve is responsible for her own sin. She did something that men and women do today that is stupid and will cause us to sin everytime.

She got into a conversation with the devil and tried to reason against his treachery.

We just CANNOT do that. The bible says that the devil is crafty and is like a lion seeking out those whom he may devour.

We CANNOT get into a conversation and start trying to justify our sins. With the devil, with God (for different reasons), with other christians, or with our own hearts.

Adam is responsible for his own sin. Adam's sin was rebellion against God and having no shame for his sinful acts. He no regard for the rules at all, as evidenced by the the fact that he tried to blame both his own wife and even God for his sin.

He said to God, "The woman that you (God) gave me...she gave it to me."

Adam wasn't a martyr nor a lamb to the slaughter. He made his own choice to eat of the fruit.

Based own his own convictions. He wasn't trying to save her by "going down with the ship" with her nor was he being led around by the nose by her.

He was his own person, just like she was.

Each individual is a sinner all unto themselves.

I understand that men have spiritual headship in their homes and that men are to guide in a humble and Godly manner.

But what you are saying is that Adam was completely responsible for Eve's sin, because he was in authority over her and chose not to "save" her.

If that's not what you are saying, then please correct me.

Peace-
Scarlett O.
<><

 

[saturneptune]

 

[Scott J]

Satan sat out to deceive Eve before she sinned. We aren't given the details but he was already in rebellion and by necessity had already fallen... otherwise he would not have been coaxing her to rebel against God.

Perhaps that was his first sin. We just aren't told. But his rebellion must have preceeded hers or at worst coincided with it.

As for Adam, no matter where he was, he was responsible for Eve.

 

[Scott J]

IOW's Adam's blaming Eve was lame through and through.

 

[MRCoon]

Ok. I believe Adam was the first sinner not just because of Romans 5:12 but because of the differences between what god told Adam (Genesis 2:16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.) and what Eve told the Serpent (Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.) where did Eve get the 'extra revelation'? God commanded Adam before He created woman , Adam told Eve, Adam told a lie by adding to God's commandment, and this opened the door for Eve to be beguiled.

Also, notice the serpent asked Eve all the while Genesis 3:6 tells us Adam was "with her"...why did Adam not say something? Because he would have been caught in his lie! That is why woman doesn't carry over the sin nature...man does! If Eve had been the first sinner there would have been no special need for Mary to be the Mother of Jesus.

 

[Scott J]

How do you get beyond the fact that Satan tempted Eve to sin... which is a sin... before Eve sinned?

 

[Scott J]

Between Adam and Eve, Paul under inspiration says Eve sinned first:

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[MRCoon]

Originally posted by Scott J:
Between Adam and Eve, Paul under inspiration says Eve sinned first:

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Adam was not deceived by the serpent...true. Eve committed the first transgression of God's commandment of eating of the tree. But why did not the sin nature pass from Mother to Child? Why does it pass from the Father if Eve sinned first? IMO, Eve was able to be led astray because of Adam's lie...thus Adam's lie was what led to the physical action of eating the fruit...For by one man sin entered into the world...'one man' = a certain man not woman.

 

[MRCoon]

Originally posted by Scott J:
How do you get beyond the fact that Satan tempted Eve to sin... which is a sin... before Eve sinned?

Satan tempted Eve with Adam there...questioning what God had said about the eating of the Tree. Adam failed to correct Eve why? Because he was the one who had told her something different than what God truly said. And we don't see that he seperated the lie from the truth adn then willing followed her into sin. Eve was beguiled...Adam had already willing sinned!

 

[MRCoon]

Originally posted by Scott J:
How do you get beyond the fact that Satan tempted Eve to sin... which is a sin... before Eve sinned?

Also are saying Eve being tempted to sin...was a sin? Jesus was tempted of the Devil (Luke 4) and yet was without sin! Being tempted is not the sin...giving into the temptation is the sin!