The First Sin

[menageriekeeper]

MR, the problem I see with your theory that Adam sinned first by lying is that God didn't tell Adam not to lie or not to add to His words. God did command Adam not to eat the fruit. Sin is disobedience to God's commands.

 

[MRCoon]

So did Eve disobey since she was not commanded to not eat? Only Adam was commanded but he failed to pass on the right commandment is this a sin? He added to God's commandment is that a sin? Interesting discussion let's keep it going!?!

 

[Marcia]

The Bible says that Eve was deceived and that Adam sinned. The Bible teaches that Adam was the federal head of man (not Eve) whose sin resulted in our condemnation to a sin nature.

I am not saying Eve did not sin, but Adam disobeyed the Lord directly whereas Eve did not. Maybe Eve sinned first technically but Adam's sin was the one that brought condemnation. God seemd to hold Adam responsible.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Along with what Marcia said, I also believe that where Eve was in essence tricked into eating, Adam (having been around longer), understood that what he was doing would displease God. He ate anyway--directly defying God's commandment.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by MRCoon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott J:
How do you get beyond the fact that Satan tempted Eve to sin... which is a sin... before Eve sinned?

Also are saying Eve being tempted to sin...was a sin? Jesus was tempted of the Devil (Luke 4) and yet was without sin! Being tempted is not the sin...giving into the temptation is the sin! </font>[/QUOTE]No I am saying that Satan sinned when he tempted Eve. It is sin to tempt someone else and entice them to sin.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by MRCoon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott J:
Between Adam and Eve, Paul under inspiration says Eve sinned first:

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Adam was not deceived by the serpent...true. Eve committed the first transgression of God's commandment of eating of the tree. But why did not the sin nature pass from Mother to Child? Why does it pass from the Father if Eve sinned first? IMO, Eve was able to be led astray because of Adam's lie...thus Adam's lie was what led to the physical action of eating the fruit...For by one man sin entered into the world...'one man' = a certain man not woman. </font>[/QUOTE]God made Adam responsible and had his covenant with him (Gen 2:16-17) prior to creating the woman. No matter where he was, he was responsible for the woman God gave him.

Transgression in this case is undeniably sin. You've read things into the text and even then only been able to sustain your idea by creating a false dichotomy between 'sin' and 'transgression'.

Further, there is no direct proof that Adam lied to Eve prior to the fall. Eve said that "God" said that they shouldn't eat or even touch the fruit. The text doesn't say that He didn't. There is also no evidence from the text that Adam was there when Eve first sinned. "With her" could be interpretted to mean that or to mean 'along with her' as in joining with her in the sin.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Marcia:
The Bible says that Eve was deceived and that Adam sinned. The Bible teaches that Adam was the federal head of man (not Eve) whose sin resulted in our condemnation to a sin nature.

I am not saying Eve did not sin, but Adam disobeyed the Lord directly whereas Eve did not. Maybe Eve sinned first technically but Adam's sin was the one that brought condemnation. God seemd to hold Adam responsible.

This is possible but not necessary. We know from the text that God walked with them in the cool of the evening. We further know that Eve said "God hath said" in Gen 3:3. She most probably had heard the command first hand from God.

 

[timothy27]

Scarlett O. That is not what I was saying, I am saying He should have told her not to eat and reminded her of the commandment, he did not. As her husband that is his duty to God as spiritual leader. In not doing this he sinned way before he took the fruit.

If my wife were to do something that is against what God has commanded it is my duty to tell her, if she continues then it is her sin, if I say nothing then it is my sin.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:

I am not saying Eve did not sin, but Adam disobeyed the Lord directly whereas Eve did not. Maybe Eve sinned first technically but Adam's sin was the one that brought condemnation. God seemd to hold Adam responsible.

This is possible but not necessary. We know from the text that God walked with them in the cool of the evening. We further know that Eve said "God hath said" in Gen 3:3. She most probably had heard the command first hand from God. </font>[/QUOTE]Except that what we have recorded is that God told Adam not to eat of the tree (Gen 2.16-17) but nowhere is it recorded that God said this to Eve. So I don't think we can assume God told Eve not to eat from the tree, just as we can't assume He did. But I see your point.

I guess we just don't know.

 

[MRCoon]

With a slight understanding of language...Eve said....God hath said...not he told me or commanded us...but I'm certain she repeated what God said because Adam told her what God said. I reckon that Adam may not have "lied" in the sense of omitting something but he did falsify the words of God probably for a justifiable reason of protecting Eve...you know like, "hey Dear and not only are we not to eat it but we shouldn't even touch it!" His sin may have been a sin of falsifying the record and of putting Eve's relationship before his relationship with God?! I find it funny to read one in the same sentence get on to me for what I read in the scripture and tell me to that we don't know because God may have told Eve but it was not record in the Bible and then try to argue with me the meaning of "with her" which is in the Bible....we can't have it both ways...either we draw discredit one area or we draw speculation. I'm certain that Adam was with her and did not of the fruit after Eve came to find him...but partook immediately knowing full well what he was doing and doing it willingly. He put his mate before God! And then blamed not just the woman who gave him the fruit but blamed the woman period and God for bringing the woman into his life...sort of like a "I was happy before you gave her to me" God...its your fault! I find it interesting to hear ya'lls other viewpoints, though!?

 

[Scarlett O.]

You want to hear my viewpoint, eh?

I do not believe that Eve and God had no relationship and that God spoke only to Adam and that Eve just had to get the crumbs of what Adam decided to tell her or remembered to tell her and that she could only get Adam's version of God's Word.

She couldn't know God nor have a conversation with Him, but she could get into a conversation with the devil? That makes no sense to me.

 

[MRCoon]

I never implied or said that Eve had no relationship with God. I'm talking specifically about a commandment that God established with Adam before he created Eve and as such it was Adam's responisbility to relay the message to Eve. That is all...maybe it is a moot point but it was a discussion in my youth group about if Eve sinned first then how could Mary be used? And how come man is the one who passes on the sin nature? The belief that Adam sinned first is my personal belief not a point to argue from a pulpit or to cause a seperation amongst the believers but I was just curious how many people felt or were taught that Eve sinned first. Yes, I know that Lucifer fell first and in fact created sin with his fall but the question is from a human side.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by MRCoon:
[ if Eve sinned first then how could Mary be used?

"Woman", in a sense of speaking, "redeemed" "Womanhood", by giving birth to the savior of the world.

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, (Jesus)

And how come man is the one who passes on the sin nature? The belief that Adam sinned first is my personal belief not a point to argue from a pulpit or to cause a seperation amongst the believers but I was just curious how many people felt or were taught that Eve sinned first. Yes, I know that Lucifer fell first and in fact created sin with his fall but the question is from a human side.

Ge 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree,

Adam's sin wasn't so much eating of the tree as it was "listening/obeying his wife" instead of God, not that either sin would have made any differences in the outcome.

But as the verse shows, God was holding Adam responsible for the decisions made in the garden, and he wasn't suppose to listen to the woman's advise.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

But women have a way of turning man's biggest sin into his "favorite", "Apple pie".