"The Freedom Crusade"

[The Galatian]

Reagan never fired a shot against the Soviet Union...but he won the cold war.

In the sense that a rooster makes the sun rise.

The collapse of the Soviet Empire from its own failures was predicted long before Reagan. The argument that buying $300 toilet seats destroyed the Soviet Union is laughable. The Soviets purposely faked entire divisions, and spread the propaganda of their great "arms build-up."

Reagan bought the story and nearly bankrupted America trying to outspend them. COngress provided so much money for arms, even Dick Cheney finally told them that it was too much.

This is why, when the Empire finally collapsed, it caught Reagan and his people completely by surprise. They assumed it was the invincible foe they had constructed in their imaginations.

 

[Bunyon]

"You didn't say Biblical nation. You said Christian Nation. Did you make a mistake?"--------------------------------------------------------

I reread my post. I am not sure where you think I said Isreal was a Christan nation. I said Biblical Nation with Christian nations. I pointed out that the other Nations you mention were not dominated by biblical thought as all successful democracys have been. Other countries like Japan and India have pseudo-democracies, but you could never equate them to weastern type demacracies. And we wrote Japan's constitution.

 

[Bunyon]

"Did you know that under the terms of the new Patriot Act prosecutors will be able to seek the death penalty in cases where “defendants gave financial support to umbrella organizations without realizing that some of its adherents might eventually commit violence”? (NY Times; editorial 10-30-05) So, if someone unknowingly gave money to a charity that was connected to a terrorist group, he could be executed."-----------------------------------------------------------

This would qualify as treason, even if the organization had not committed any violence. If there stated goal is to overthrow the gov of the united states and you give them money, that is treason. Treason has always carried the death penalty. Nothing new there. Alot of what you state is ho hum. Clinton established alot of similar powers to be used in the event of serious terroist threat. Our presidents have always had the power to suspend our rights and declear martial law if need be. The Idea is if our country falls you loos your rights anyway. So marshal law makes sense as a last resort to save the nation. All you can do is hope you have a Bush in office and not a Clinton, who would not relinquish power and would turn us over to a gloval government.

"This is why, when the Empire finally collapsed, it caught Reagan and his people completely by surprise. They assumed it was the invincible foe they had constructed in their imaginations."------------------------------------------------------

Sorry pal, but you simply don't know your history. The Soviet Union fell because its satalite nations fell. Reagan and John Paul ii worked closely together to cause and support the freedom movements in nations like Poland. Remember, perostoka. Finally, Hungary opened its boarders and thousands started to flee to the west as a direct result of the interventions of Reagan and JPII. Once they coule no longer force there citizens to stay and work, tehy could not hold power. Then there was the revolt in citzens exicuted Chowchescu and hung him in public. Once the mob was empowered and all the "captives" new it. It was the end. These things happened as a directed result of the involvment and support of the freedom movements by JPii and Reagan. It is all plain history. I think everyone was surprised a little by how quick it happened and how little the Eastern govs were able to resist. This is plain history.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by The Galatian:
In the sense that a rooster makes the sun rise.

I submit that if Jimmy Carter had been re-elected in 1980 that the Soviet Union would not have fallen by 1991.

Now, back to the subject of this thread, Galatian. What do you think about the premise of the article overall?

 

[fromtheright]

One problem with the article is in its comparison of containment with the Bush Doctrine. Yes, containment rocked along for decades, helping to ensure the continued life of an Evil Empire. Reagan rejected it and communism fell. Coexistence is not necessarily either the moral or the prudential course. The authors' argument smacks of moral equivalency which I reject.

Another thing lost sight of by Tucker is that WE WERE ATTACKED. This changes, and must change, a great deal in the way the U.S. looks at the world and in forming our own strategy in dealing with such threats. It also frames a difference between Bush and Wilsonianism, in that Bush does not lean on internationalism to support his agenda. There are moral imperatives in dealing with current threats that cannot wait for morally squeamish allies to validate or approve.

The authors also teased out of me a sailor's lexicon with such ridiculous statements as his reference to "the cavalier disregard for Arab lives the United States demonstrated in the first war against Iraq in 1991." This statement is utter hogwash and pushes them outside the margin of being taken seriously. That along with such statements as "Only the Iraqi government would need an arrest warrant; the multinational force could break down doors." We don't go into wars with a stack of arrest or search warrants.

I must admit, Ken, it wasn't long after reading that statement that I quit reading the article in just complete contempt.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

FTR,

Exactly Correct!

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by fromtheright:
This changes, and must change, a great deal in the way the U.S. looks at the world and in forming our own strategy in dealing with such threats.

True, but we cannot stop terrorism around the world all by ourselves. We didn't win World War II alone. We didn't win the Cold War alone. We had allies and we must have allies today - and that means more than Great Britain only.

I noticed the same sentence you did, ftr, and just let it roll on by and kept reading.

 

[Bunyon]

FTR, You are the man. Where have you been?

 

[fromtheright]

Bunyon,

Thanks for asking. I've met a wonderful woman and have had my head in the clouds.


Ken,

Good point but my answer to it is that the job has to be done and if no one else joins us then we simply know who can and can't be counted on to do it.

As to WWII, our allies had a stake in it and we bailed their butts out. If our allies don't understand that yet again, then we will have to destroy this enemy without them. Evil doesn't lie around waiting for the good to be roused.

 

[Bunyon]

Well that is nice. I take it you are single then. Well keep us informed. And don't let your mind get to clouded with love, we need your input here.

 

[fromtheright]

Are you kidding--pass up a chance to do battle with friends like these here? No way.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by fromtheright:
Bunyon,

Thanks for asking. I've met a wonderful woman and have had my head in the clouds.

FTR,

Congrats man! I am not sure that is the right response though. It has been so long since I had my three laundry piles in college that I don't remember what it is like to be single.

Thank God for the wonderful wife I have, and for my wonderful son. I sure do love them. Enjoy the clouds while you can.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by fromtheright:
If our allies don't understand that yet again, then we will have to destroy this enemy without them.

That's just the point - we can't.

 

[fromtheright]

Thanks much, JB. Yeah, enjoying the soft and fluffy clouds now, hoping they don't turn dark! Thunderstorms are no fun!

Sounds like we're both blessed.


Ken,

Practically speaking, you may be right, but we should not hesitate to join the fight that has been forced on us. We didn't delay the Revolution until the French joined. It was fortunate that they did (not that I particularly care for having the French join us in this one, but I digress) but the rectitude of the cause and the urgency of the moment required immediate action. If they don't join us it will be a lonely fight but fight we must.

 

[poncho]

This would qualify as treason, even if the organization had not committed any violence. If there stated goal is to overthrow the gov of the united states and you give them money, that is treason. Treason has always carried the death penalty. Nothing new there. Alot of what you state is ho hum. Clinton established alot of similar powers to be used in the event of serious terroist threat. Our presidents have always had the power to suspend our rights and declear martial law if need be. The Idea is if our country falls you loos your rights anyway. So marshal law makes sense as a last resort to save the nation. All you can do is hope you have a Bush in office and not a Clinton, who would not relinquish power and would turn us over to a gloval government.

We're lucky to have a globalist like Bush in office rather than a globalist like Clinton.

Sorry, but that line of reasoning just cracks me up.

George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long I'm the dictator." December 18, 2000 <- LINK

 

[Bunyon]

Glad to make you smile, Poncho. Perhaps you are right, but I'd trust the Bushes in a state of emergency bofore Clinton anyday.

 

[poncho]

When it comes right down to brass tacks does it really matter which party the one worlder tyrants belong to?

It wasn't the lefties that pushed CAFTA and Codex Alimentarius into law, it isn't the lefties that are pushing for the FTAA, It wasn't the lefties that got us involved again with UNESCO. It isn't the lefties that want to do away with Posse Comitatus and Habeous Corpus and due process. It isn't the lefties that have asked not once but twice for martial law power. It isn't the lefties that are trying to fund it through the "flu pandemic emergency" legislation with non stop propaganda. It isn't the lefties that are pushing a biometric national Id card. Etc etc.

It's the righties and lefties doing all this because they have all sold out the American people to the New World Order.

 

[Bunyon]

Well I don't know about the lefties, but the demos have been involved with all of these.

 

[poncho]

One faction (party) tries to steer us into a right wing autocratic world government while the other offers up a left wing socialist autocratic one world government.

Neither faction is willing to get us out of the United Nations, but would rather empower them and their communist policies over us through the unconstitutional agencies and legislation of a one world government.

Either way we lose our sovereignty and liberty as a nation and a people to unelected officials at the WTO, WHO, IMF, World Bank and other assorted multinational corporations.

That isn't my idea of freedom. The real threat to this country as I see it isn't from foreign terrorists it's from foreign tyrants right here amongst what we have come to view as 'our government' selling off and giving away our sovereignty as a nation.

America is being tag teamed to death by both parties while we cheer for 'our side' and jeer 'their side'.

Either you are for a free sovereign America or you are for an economically enslaved one world government North American Community 'harmonized' to the third worlds standard of living, population control and complete disarmament of the citizens.

 

[Bunyon]

"Either you are for a free sovereign America or you are for an economically enslaved one world government North American Community 'harmonized' to the third worlds standard of living, population control and complete disarmament of the citizens."------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am for good old fashioned, Judeochristian, constitutional Americana.